Podcast

Experiencing God’s Presence this Advent. Carol Tetzlaff

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Unshakable Hope Podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions, such as how do I trust God’s heart when His ways and delays are breaking mine? We’ll hear from people just like you and me, who have experienced God’s faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected.

My prayer is that God would renew our hope in His word and His love through these conversations.

Kelly: Hey, friends, I’m so glad you’re joining me for this conversation. I just think it’s going to be really helpful because as we enter the holiday season, many of us find ourselves reeling and wrestling from a heaviness, either ongoing heartache, unmet expectations, or fresh worries that have just landed in our path.

My guest and I will be discussing how we can navigate this season with a fresh [00:01:00] awareness. That God really is with us and we’re going to be talking about how to give God sacred space In our hearts this season. So my guest carol tetzeloff has just released a beautiful new advent devotional The cover is so peaceful.

I hope you guys check it out. It’s called god with us emmanuel It’s an Advent devotional featuring 32 authors that help us see Jesus with fresh eyes through the lineage of Christ. Advent starts soon, so I really wanted to give you time to check this out. Let me tell you about Carol, and then we’ll get to our conversation.

Carol is an author, speaker, and associate publisher at Redemption Press. She actually lives near me, so we get to have in person hugs every now and then. Her passion is discipleship of all ages as she has served many years on staff at her local church in every capacity from kids ministry to worship ministries.

She’s married to Kelly, which is [00:02:00] sometimes confusing in group conversations. I think she’s talking about me, but her husband is Kelly and they have so much fun together. Have eleven fun. and super cute grandkids. Carol is a multi award winning author, including the 2022 Sela Award Bible Study of the Year.

This was for her book Ezra, Unleashing the Power of Praise. I highly recommend it. She is a powerful teacher of God’s word. Carol, I’m so glad you could join me. Welcome.

Well, Kelly, it is so good to be here. And actually we don’t get hugs often enough.

Kelly: I agree.

Carol: I mean, we really do live close to each other. So we need to plan lunch soon.

And it is a joy to, call you friend. And, our meeting several years ago, that led us to just connect was just a blessing. So thank you for having me on your show.

Kelly: Yeah, I’m so grateful for our friendship. And I wonder if you wanted to add anything else to the intro.

Carol: [00:03:00] Well, I do love teaching the word.

I love speaking to women’s group. Women’s ministry is one of those things in my life where I was, telling God, please do not make me do this. And he said, you’re actually going to, and I just said, Develop such a heart and passion for women. And now not only do I get to speak at their events and retreats, but I also get to teach them how to write and share their own story.

As one of the publishers at redemption press.

Kelly: Yeah. And that just shines your, your love for God’s word, your love for women, it shines. And it was really been fun as I’ve been working with you on a new collaborative book that’s coming out. You are a great. Coach for authors. You’re very talented. So fun.

Carol: One of my favorite things to do is to see someone who has an idea and be able to help them process it and create a story, a book, a message that will resonate with our audience.

Kelly: And I know, I remember you saying one time, every day you pray for God to give you creativity, to [00:04:00] download that. And that comes out my friend in conversations with you.

Your creative ideas just blow me away.

Carol: Thank you. My brain’s a scary place sometimes. So,

Kelly: oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, we know that as we’re approaching the holiday season, it can be 1 of the most challenging 6 weeks of the year to navigate for many people. We’re going to be talking this whole conversation about how we can know that God is really with us in, in the busyness and the tension and interpersonal challenges that we are dealing with.

So what, what would you like to say about that?

Carol: Yeah, I think that we do feel more isolated at the holiday season and alone than any other time of the year. And it’s funny because that’s typically where we’re around people the most. But I think that gives us that tension of having to be all the things for all the people, whether it’s our family, our church, our friends, our workplace, our [00:05:00] children, like everyone is pulling at us.

And it’s then that we feel like, am I the only one? Where is God? How can I find him in this season and really lean into him when I’m just so busy? I can barely even

Kelly: I, so agree with you. I think it can be one of the most isolating seasons in the whole year. And like you said, there’s a lot of people around, but if we don’t feel seen, known, understood, cared for, enveloped, and if we can’t let go of some of the expectations we have, we do not experience the peace of Christ.

Carol: Well, and I think even as. You know, I’m walking into the holiday season this year. There are some challenges happening in my world. Some in our personal lives, , that you do, you feel so alone. And then in the holiday season, it just seems to be exasperated because you’re trying to do all things for all people.

Yeah, I remember a time when it was probably. [00:06:00] Almost 25 years ago, right after Thanksgiving, my best friend was in a very serious car accident in an ICU for two years. We didn’t even know she was going to make it. And during the, it’s hard enough during any other time of the year, but it was a holiday season.

And I remember being at a store, while she was in ICU and I had taken a break from the hospital and I went and did some grocery shopping. And I remember watching everyone around me just buying Christmas presents and having fun. And their kids were laughing. And I was like, don’t they know I’m falling apart inside?

God, where are you? How can I find you in this place? And. So often we, because we eternal internalize so much of what we are going through, we really have a difficult time and a challenging time finding God and finding ways to cope with the things that we’re walking through. And I know Kelly, you have been, you know, we talked a little bit before, but you’re going through the same thing in your own life.

Kelly: Yeah. [00:07:00] Absolutely. I won’t give any details, but yesterday a situation occurred in the life of somebody I love so much, one of my daughters. And it just was like a dumpster fire of sorrow that landed on my heart. , and it’s one of these situations where it’s really difficult to help people understand the depths and the intricacies of this sorrow.

And so, It made me feel isolated and alone and I, and it stirs up, here’s the other thing that happens when we experience hardship is that it stirs up the deepest lies in our heart. Like God has abandoned us. I, no one understands and even God has left, left the building and is not paying attention. And so that was very hard for me, but you know what I want to say to people, what I experienced yesterday and, um, Today, God brought to mind the story of Elijah, who was depressed [00:08:00] after, this huge time of ministry and God did not come to him and say, Elijah, don’t, you know, I’m with you.

Come on, get it together. And he didn’t roll his eyes at him. He just drew near and ministered to the depth of his heart, and he provided food and a place to sleep. And then Elijah woke up and He gave him more food. And gave him more sleep and I just want us to be so gentle with ourselves. I just want to invite all of our listeners to be gentle with yourself, no matter what you’re walking through in this holiday season, to let go of other people’s expectations and to believe in the depths of it all that God sees you.

Even if no one else understands. God sees you. God knows. God understands. And the other thing, Carol, that helped me so much is reaching out to a very few, trusted people and asking for prayer and also one of them just talking with her because I needed to process out loud. [00:09:00] That was so helpful. And then, you know, just knowing that God gives us permission to groan and lament and be loud and sad and ugly cry, and then to work to the truth that he really is with us in this place.

And that brings comfort.

Carol: That’s so good. And that’s just such great advice for us as we do walk through the holiday season, you know, to really. Um, and that we can place people in our life that we know are going to pray with us and for us, and that we can share with, um, ironically enough, something that we’re walking through, I was on that call this morning with a friend and her family is walking through the exact same thing, and she said, we haven’t told anyone, we’re sharing it, I’m just sharing it with you, and I was like, well, we haven’t told anyone either, and I was sharing with her, and it was like, God brings those people that can get you, and that can really Not just sympathize with you and be feel sorry for you, but empathize with you and walk through it together.

And, he brings us exactly what we need. And it is the [00:10:00] evidence of that that shows us that God really is with us and he’s with us in a tangible way through fellow believers who are pressing into him as well.

Kelly: Mm. I’m so glad you shared that. That is so true. And you know, it just reminds me we do have to be careful who we share our deepest heartache with.

But you and I both found someone who really understood and we knew they were a safe place and God led us to them. And it does so minister to us when we can talk to someone who gets it. And I want to just read a scripture because this scripture comforted me and reminded me that God was with me. In, in this really deep sorrow.

So it comes out of Isaiah 41. It’s really a familiar verse, but it says, why do you say, Oh, Jacob and complain, Oh, Israel, my way is hidden from the Lord. My cause is disregarded by my God. And that question really, really resonated [00:11:00] with me because I felt like, God, you’ve abandoned me. You’ve left me. Why do you keep allowing.

There’s these types of things to happen in our lives for people that love you that are seeking you. But then it goes on to say don’t you know haven’t you heard the lord is the everlasting god He is the creator of the ends of the earth he will not grow tired or weary and his understanding no one can fathom He’s the one who gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak.

And then in verse 31 it says, But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint. Hallelujah. That comforts me so much.

Carol: Yeah. And it’s, it’s the times that we walk through these challenging seasons is when we do begin to recognize God is with us.

If we never walked through challenges, we wouldn’t need God. And so it gives us that [00:12:00] awareness that God is there and he is present. And so then when we are walking through good times, we can see him even in a greater way because we have dealt with him in the valley.

Kelly: Yes. Amen.

And when we are, when we’re trying to remember and embrace the truth that God really is with us during hard seasons, it takes faith. It takes looking at his word. It takes declaring what’s true. So what are some reminders of how we can? Build our faith during the holiday season.

Carol: Well, I think we have to recognize first, we’re not the only ones that struggle to believe, and you know, I am reminded of that I’m reading right now through the gospel of Luke. And I am reminded of that every single day when I read, because The disciples were with the incarnate God. God with us, Emanuel was walking with them and talking with them and eating with them and , you know, teaching them and doing all the things and they still struggle to believe.

[00:13:00] So if someone who has, you know, Jesus with them physically has struggled believing, how much more should we, and that’s why I think as I was reading this morning, um, where Jesus says to Thomas, how much better. For those who believe who have not seen me and there is such a gift when we can fully trust that Jesus is with us.

Kelly: Yes. Oh, that that’s so true. Yeah. We often think Jesus, if you were just here in flesh and blood, then I would, it would be so much easier to believe, but we look at the disciples and they struggled all so much. They struggled so much. So it is fun for me to read through their stories and think, Oh, I’m just like them.

I don’t get it. So what are some examples? What’s another example? You’ve just shared one where we see the disciples struggling to believe.

Carol: Well, 1 of my favorite examples, and it’s funny because God led me there 1 night when I was really struggling to have faith. [00:14:00] And I remember trying to turn to the Psalms and I was trying to find a Psalm to read because that’s where you go in the middle of the night.

Right? When you’re asleep. And I kept hearing God say to me. You know, the Holy Spirit speaking to me, go to the gospels, go to the gospels. And I was like, the gospels, like, where’s the hope there in having faith? You know, I need somebody to like, just minister to my soul with a sweet song. And I turned to the feeding of the 5, 000 and it’s the flannel graph story that we all know.

We know all the details, we know about the little boy and the fish, but. But when we really look at this story and we recognize what happened before it and why their faith is shaken. So in the story of the 5, 000, we see, first of all, this amazing thing has happened. Jesus has sent the disciples out and they’ve done all these miracles and cast out demons and they come back and they’re all excited about what they’ve done, but then they get the bomb that drops and John the Baptist has just been beheaded.

And so that had to rock their world. Like, wait a minute. I’m out doing what John was [00:15:00] doing and like proclaiming who Jesus is and the one to come and the Messiah and, and doing all these things in Jesus name. Am I going to get my head chopped off too? Like what’s going to happen to me? And so their faith had to be deflated and they were tired.

It tells us, and Jesus is going to take them away, but then the people see Jesus and all these people start coming towards them. And so I love in the scripture. Where it says he welcomed them, all these people, they were tired, they were weary, but Jesus still welcomed in the people. So Jesus welcomes us in.

And then the disciples get to a point where they’re like, can’t you just send them away? They need food. And Jesus says, of course, we know, you know, well, you feed them. And he gets the five loaves of bread and the two fish and he breaks it. And one of the things I noticed just this last time when I was reading is that The disciples took the baskets and it said they distributed it to the people 10, 000 or so with all the women and children that were there [00:16:00] and how in the miracle and in their weariness, Jesus actually still made them feel the weight of the miracle carrying around these baskets.

Can you imagine? I mean, think of it. It’s like a stadium. That’s filled with people that they’re having to walk up and down the hills and give all this food out. But Jesus shows up and he teaches them that even when we’re weary, the miracle could happen. And when the miracle is over and they’re collecting it, there are 12 baskets left.

And I do not believe that’s a mistake because he wanted them to recognize that out of your only that you gave me, I can give you overflow. And I am here to provide for you.

Kelly: That is so powerful. I, I think so many people miss the context of that story. They miss the heartache. They miss the weariness. And I, I love the compassion we see.

And I love how Jesus, like you were saying, invites the disciples in, like he didn’t just suddenly invite them in. Have food [00:17:00] appear in front of every single person in the stadium, so called stadium that he’s feeding the disciples had to exercise faith, and they got to see the miracle unfold before their eyes.

They didn’t have enough in their basket. To feed 10, 000 people, but as they kept handing it out, they began to see it multiplying as they were obedient and going through and talking to people and then seeing how much was left over. We just, it always speaks to me about the abundance of God and how, and this is really huge to me and how he provides for our needs.

As we walk it out, as we walk through our weariness, and as we walk through those places where we feel like we don’t understand, we don’t get him, he doesn’t see, we think maybe he doesn’t see us, he doesn’t understand, but he provided in a miraculous, abundant way, and that’s who he is, this unstoppable, unrivaled God [00:18:00] who loves us more than we can imagine and provides more than enough for all of our needs.

Carol: And it gives us the just promise that he’s going to provide for us, even in the circumstances where we’re walking through today. But it doesn’t mean that our faith will still not be shaken.

Kelly: Right.

Carol: So he still meets us there in those moments.

Kelly: Yeah, and we see that with the disciples. It’s not like this was a one and done thing.

I mean, . Right after this they’re in this huge storm and their faith is shaken and they and then Peter walks on water and sinks But Jesus provides for them and he says be still he rebukes the storm and everything is quiet And we see the disciples respond with this Amazement. Who is this? Like they still do not understand who he is that this Messiah is able to rule over He has all authority in heaven and earth.

And that helps me because I realized I’m just like that. [00:19:00] I don’t get that. He has full authority in every area where I have need.

Carol: Well, and I think it shows up again, which is so ironic because in the next instance, so there is that, that the miracle I’ve got of Jesus, call me in the storm and the disciples and amazement, but then they get to a hillside again.

Kelly. Again, same scenario. And then he’s like, we need to send the people away. We don’t have any food. And Jesus again, provides the food and gives them the weight to carry it. And this time he feeds 4, 000 men with women and children. And so that the disciples, and it says they collected the baskets back up again.

They still had another 12 baskets after this, but we’re seven. Didn’t they have seven? That’s right. Seven. And what blows me away and I don’t know what they did with the seven baskets because the next part of the story lends to their. Unbelief again, because they get in this boat to get some rest and to go to the other side.

And the argument they are having on the boat [00:20:00] is what are we going to do? We only have one loaf of bread. And I’m just like, do they ever learn? And it would be the same with us. Will we ever have enough faith? Will we ever truly believe that Jesus is with us and he is going to provide for our every need?

It may not look like what we think it should look like, but he is there to foster our belief and to continue to challenge us to really trust in him.

Kelly: Amen. I love that story. So dang much. You know, they’re sitting in that boat, like you mentioned, and they’re having this conversation where Jesus says he’s trying to give them instruction about truth about his truth and how to pay attention to it.

And they’re having a discussion. They’re so ADHD. They’re having this discussion about, did you bring the bread? No, I didn’t bring the bread. And then Jesus says, why are your hearts so hardened? And that has really just penetrated my heart. As I think about the truth that even though I see God’s [00:21:00] goodness every single day, I see his miraculous care for our family.

I can still miss the message behind his miracles. I can still miss the truth that he is with me and for me in all his power at all times. Yeah,

Carol: I think one thing that I put a practice in my life of doing, um, you know, in the morning specifically, and in the evening during my just quiet time is when I am so discouraged and so lacking faith, I just start.

Being grateful. And I just start in my journal, just writing down, like, God, what did you do yesterday that I can be thankful for, even when it’s in the midst of the hard. And where did I find you faithful? Where did I sense you were with me in that moment? I mean, yesterday out of the blue, I got the most Beautiful email, , that I did not even like solicit.

I did not, [00:22:00] and, and it was that this morning that I was sitting before God and just saying, thank you for that. I needed that yesterday. I needed that truth and that encouragement and the opportunity that it’s going to give me to, um, recognize like, you’re not done. You are faithful to continue to use me.

Even when we are walking through hard things.

Kelly: Amen. Yeah. Oh, that’s so good.

Yeah. I’m just grateful. Sometimes I feel for the disciples because they did not yet have the Holy Spirit working and moving in their heart. But I think even though they got to see Jesus with their very own eyes, they didn’t experience the power of the Holy Spirit.

And, that’s what we have now. But how can we truly learn to believe that God is with us and how did they learn to believe that God was with them?

Carol: Yeah, well, I mean, if you look back at the disciples through the Gospels, they had some really hard things they had to walk through with Jesus.

There were people that were out to kill Jesus, which they [00:23:00] did, but they were fearful of that. , and they didn’t have the Holy Spirit that time they had Jesus and Jesus kept saying. No, it’s good that I go away because I’m going to send you the comforter. He’s going to be with you all the time. He is going to be there to help you.

And they experienced in the upper room. And if you think of Pentecost and that filling of the Holy spirit, they were unleashed on a world to do things they could have never done without the Holy spirit. And they radically changed the world, which has radically changed our world because we are still, gleaning from their ministry that they had in the hard things that they had to walk through.

And the same is true for us as we walk through our. And so, you know, when we look at the difficulties and challenges in this world, we know that we have the Holy Spirit and we never lose him. We can quench him with our disobedience and our hardening of our heart, but we can never lose him. And so the filling of the Holy Spirit every day that allows us to, when we get the phone call, when we get the email, when we get the news from our spouse or [00:24:00] from our children, that’s hard.

We can say with confidence that we believe God has something good in this, even in the hard.

Kelly: Yes, I wanted to read a quote by Mark Batterson that talks about this. It says, we don’t see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. And that’s what you’re talking about, how the Holy Spirit can help us see the reality of the world.

And that’s why it’s so, it’s so critical that we spend time in prayer and in the word and open our hearts to the, to the correcting power and love of God through his spirit.

Carol: Yeah. And remembering it’s really what gets us through when we are walking through a hard season. We remember when God was faithful in the same circumstance, in the same basic problems that we may be facing today, but we saw him faithful then, and he will be faithful again.

He is [00:25:00] a God who loves us so much and he is so good. There is nothing that he does that is not good for us. And so both Kelly, you know, as we are walking through some hard things right now, we know that we can trust him, that he is with us and we know that he is good and he is causing, and it’s not just a cliche, he is causing all things to work together for good to those who love him and who follow after him and who keep his commandments and who press into him in those seasons when we are just so alone, he is with us.

Kelly: Amen. He is with us. And I wanted to, one of the things I’ve shared on this podcast many times, it’s just the truth that we truly are not at the mercy of our circumstances. That’s what the disciples learned as they Fed the 5, 000, they fed the 4, 000. As Jesus calmed the storms, they began to see, we’re not at the mercy of our [00:26:00] circumstances.

And so one of the prayers that I have on my wall that I share with people a lot is, is this, Lord, you are with me and for me in all You’re wonder working, giant slaying, sea splitting, mountain moving, water walking, sun stopping, obstacle demolishing, death defying, power in love at all times.

Carol: So, so good.

Kelly: I’m so grateful for his presence. You and I have both experienced the truth that he can provide supernatural peace and comfort. Even in our deepest times of sorrow. Yeah.

Carol: Yeah. So as we walk into the holiday season, as we’ve been talking today. Really take those times in the morning and the evening to just be still before him and recognize the season is here where God becomes flesh.

I love the verse in 1st John 1, 14, where it says, and I love the message [00:27:00] translation of it. And he put on flesh and moved into the neighborhood and he wants to move into your neighborhood. This holiday season. So let him and the way that we experiences we experience him most is when we spend time with him in his word and we see how he is going to move and work in us through each day and each experience that we go through.

Kelly: Amen. And you know, your devotional, the way it’s written God with us, Emmanuel, that Advent devotional really helps us make sacred space. For God’s presence every day. It helps us because of the questions that are asked at the end of each day It really helps us process the truth and embrace the truth more fully That God truly is with us in all of his love right now

Carol: yeah, and we get to see that through the lineage of Christ and all the Ways that God provided a way for his son to come into the [00:28:00] world

Kelly: Mm hmm.

Yes, it is truly beautiful. I can put links of course to this book in the show notes. Is there a special going on right now? You can get it on Kindle, right?

Carol: Um, you can get it on Kindle so you can download it as an ebook. So you have it right away and we’re keeping the price point really low at 4. 99. So you can just get it on your Kindle and be able to, start. It actually starts on Thanksgiving day to get through it. You know, and end on Christmas Day, because Thanksgiving is so late. This year, and then there’s resources that go with it. I created a kind of a Bible study guide to walk through each day that you can download for free.

I gave you that link as well. If they want to do that. And then we have a Facebook group that they can join and be a part of all the different authors. There’s 33 different authors in this book, and each of them are going to share just 5 minutes. fun holiday tips and treasures that will help us just prepare for the holiday and some fun things that will kind of keep our mind on the reason for the [00:29:00] season and just how to press into Jesus more.

Kelly: That’s so good. And I will have all the links in the show notes. Carol, thank you. It’s just a beautiful way to walk through the holidays and it doesn’t take much time each day. Each day is, is short and it just. Land on your soul in such a sweet, powerful way as we really does help us make space, sacred space for God’s presence with us throughout the season.

Carol: Thank you, Kelly, for having me. It’s a pleasure to be with you and with your audience.

Kelly: Thank you so much for joining me. God bless you, my friend.

If you were encouraged in your faith today, it’d be great. If you’d help get the word out by subscribing, sharing with a friend or leaving a review, I’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, kelly hall. org and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the unshakable Hope [00:30:00] Podcast.