Podcast

Gratitude, Abundance, and Sticky Faith. Amber Cullum

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Unshakable Hope Podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions, such as how do I trust God’s heart when His ways and delays are breaking mine? We’ll hear from people just like you and me, who have experienced God’s faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected.

My prayer is that God would renew our hope in His word and His love through these conversations.

Kelly: Well, hey, friends, I am so glad you’re here. My guest today is Amber Cullum and we have such a fun and helpful conversation that is perfectly suited for the month of Thanksgiving. Amber shares how the practice of gratitude literally transformed her life.

We talk about practical ways to turn our hearts toward God and cultivate a heart of thankfulness to Him year round. . We’ll also talk about ways Amber has opened the [00:01:00] door to authentic faith conversations with her preteens and teenagers that helps them understand how to process their hard questions about God and with God.

We cover a lot of ground and I hope you’ll enjoy this conversation as much as I have. Amber is an awesome friend, but she’s also been a mentor and a coach throughout this whole podcasting journey. She is a wife, mom, speaker, teacher, and host of the Grace is Enough podcast.

She’s also a physical therapist, which I think is so fun because so am I, and I don’t get to have many conversations with fellow physical therapists. So Amber, welcome to the show.

Amber: Oh, thanks Kelly for having me. I remember when we made that connection over PT and sometimes I forget that I’m a PT because I haven’t practiced for so long.

I don’t know about you. And then someone asked me a question and I’m like, Oh yeah, I do know the answer.

Kelly: Yeah. Well, having all that physical therapy knowledge has actually helped our family a lot for [00:02:00] many, many issues. But just this week, I thought of you because I retired my license. And so, Oh,

Amber: man.

Kelly: Stop pay.

I get to stop paying fees and doing the you know,

Amber: Continuing Ed.

Kelly: The Continuing Ed. Yes.

Amber: Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. Yeah, well, because I have teenagers right now and we’re just at that point where just recently, sorry, I’ll try not to go on about this too long, but my oldest son, he’s had this ankle injury.

He plays basketball. I mean, you know, the typical ankle sprain, once you do it once, you do it again. And if you do it again, you’re probably going to do it again. And I mean, he just gets so frustrated with it that it probably is going to be a bit of a struggle for him, but he just will not fully believe that I know what’s happening.

So I ended up taking him to the ortho and the ortho says every single thing I had already said, and I tried not to get irritated. Right. But he was also later like, yeah, you know, mom, I’m sorry that, you know, you had to pay all that money to [00:03:00] basically hear what you already knew. And I’m like, Thanks.

Kelly: Yeah, thanks so much. One time, one of my girls was struggling with biology and my son said, well, no one in our family knows very much about science. And I’m like, hello, do you not even know who I am? I have 2 science degrees,

Amber: even though sometimes when people are talking to me out in public, I don’t want to say anything because there’s no, that’s the thing about there’s no quick thing.

Fix for most people’s issues and so I always am trying to help them understand like this is not something where you just go home and do this one thing and it goes away. I mean, that’s just rarely the case. And so sometimes I do like to pretend like I don’t know what’s going on.

Kelly: Yeah, I understand. Well, you mentioned your family.

Why don’t you tell us more about your family and a little bit about your faith journey as well.

Amber: Yeah, I am a mom to three. I’ve got a 14 year old boy, 12 year old [00:04:00] today is her birthday, a 12 year old girl, and another 8 year old boy. I partially homeschool them, so they go to a university model. Classical school.

So they’re in school either two or three days a week. And then they’re home the other days. So that keeps me busy. And my husband is Sam and we’ve been together for, I think, almost 17 years now. And so my faith, yeah, I know, right? My faith journey, I grew up in a culturally Christian environment, I would say meaning,

I was around a lot of Christians, most people in the area where I grew up, even if they weren’t Christians, they probably went to church from time to time. So the church lingo Jesus, like none of that was really foreign language. And then my mom’s side of the family, they were Christians. And I mean, I came to know Christ at age 12 and I definitely recall [00:05:00] moments of my life, like really.

Wanting to be in the word, wanting to understand more, but like so many I was a fairly, not fairly, I was a very rebellious teenager and just made a lot of bad decisions and really, I would say. I wandered quite far from the faith, yet still went to church every Sunday still went to the occasional youth event and had a family in our church that really, I mean, the parents were just consistent.

And so when I went away to college, I ended up living one of them was my friend, my age. And then her older sister, who is my sister’s age, and she went to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes at the University of Kentucky. And I started going there, and honestly, like, God just used college ministry to totally transform my life.

Like. I am such a huge advocate for [00:06:00] people just really trying to get their, their kids, their students to get involved with college ministry because it’s such a formative time in your life. And Both can be fun. The party world can be fun, and this college Christian environment can be a ton of fun. I mean, we still had parties where we danced and ate food, but we just didn’t consume alcohol and sleep around, like, so there were these, you know, we still did a lot of things together.

Football games, basketball games, I mean, tailgates, anything you can think of, it just didn’t involve Alcohol, filthy language and promiscuity and involved a whole lot of Jesus encouragement and just goofing around and having fun. And so God got a hold of my heart there and yeah, I have not been the same since.

Kelly: Oh, that’s beautiful. I love that. I can’t really picture you being rebellious,

Amber: it was bad. It was bad.

Kelly: Well, [00:07:00] Amber, I know you’ve done extensive research on gratitude.

You speak about it quite frequently and I know there’s a story behind why that became a part of your research. So I’d love for you to share that with us.

Amber: Yeah, you know, I was speaking of growing up in a fairly cultural Christian, culturally Christian area, and I would say the same really for my family, but we were grumblers.

I’m not trying to throw my family under the bus, but even now I am Certainly more of a glass half empty kind of person than a glass half full kind of person. And if we never have someone that helps stop that runaway train of just complaining and, always thinking about the negative, always focusing on the negative, then just like anything else, that very much becomes part of our daily rhythms, our daily habits.

And so. I am one of those people as [00:08:00] well that I have a really strong inner critic and I, which also means I can be very critical of other people and my husband Did not grow up in a family of just constant grumbling. And so we were driving one day and I was just on one of my, you know, rants where I was super irritated about something.

And I can look back now and see, and see that it wasn’t because my husband was trying to act like he was better than me or that he was really any more grateful than I was, but he had seen modeled for him, his own mom doing things like. Tell me five things you’re grateful for when she would experience them just, you know, we just, you just go down this road for a long time.

And so, sure, it’s really common even to come up with worst case scenarios. That’s right. That’s right. And so he stopped me in the middle, well, interrupted me really and said, I want you to tell me five things you’re thankful for. [00:09:00] And man, it just, oh, it just made me so irritated. And I eventually did it and that happened a couple more times and I did begin to realize a more quickness when I found my own thoughts going to, you know, just worst case scenarios, like you said, instead stopping myself and begin, beginning to express gratitude to God for various things or just for who he was.

And Really, over time, I just began to notice that gratitude really did help pull me out of a pit like almost nothing else. So that’s kind of how it all started.

Kelly: Wow, that’s so interesting. Well, I love understanding brain science because it really seems like science has finally caught up with the way God created us.

Amber: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

Kelly: Yeah. The way our brain works is fascinating, and science has discovered that. And so, share with [00:10:00] us some of the ways that it changes our brain, some of the benefits of gratitude.

Amber: Yeah, I like to say science is catching up with God’s science because it’s been his, you know, idea and design all along.

And so, so many people now, I’ve heard the word neuroplasticity, meaning our brain’s ability to change and not just change to learn new information that you’ve never known before, but its ability to go from something that you already know and kind of reverse some of that. That’s some of this new trauma type therapy that we’re doing.

Okay. Yeah, therapy. And I know that you’ve, you’ve mentioned even with your daughters, like some of their Lyme disease, disease stuff just rewiring the limbic system, which is that our body’s ability to just over respond to therapy. to stimuli, [00:11:00] no matter what that is, whether it’s stress or fear or whatever.

And so the thing with gratitude that they have found as they have continued to study it is you can actually begin to make new tracks in your brain. And so I try to tell people like, imagine a really busy highway in Atlanta or Miami or wherever you may live, Los Angeles. And on that highway are all these cars just going all day long.

Well, if that was, you know, on asphalt, we may not notice that as much because people come in and they fix the road and you don’t know it as much. But if negative experiences words that you say, things you believe about yourself, Things that have been spoken over you, if those roads were dirt, the rivets in those roads would be really, really deep and really, really negative.

And so those signals are just passing on those roads all day. But if you begin to practice gratitude [00:12:00] and replace some of those negative thoughts, it’s almost like a. The, what’s traveling on those roads is rebuilding those ruts back to a level ground or building new roads so that you don’t have to take the old roads anymore.

And that really is a common, not common, but a simple way to think about like your brain’s ability to change and begin to think something differently than what it used to think. And I find that Absolutely fascinating yeah, for someone like me who in all of us, we’ve had some trauma experiences, but someone who spent more of her life practicing grumbling and more quick to do that than not, that I can slowly make changes if I just choose to do so.

Kelly: Yeah, yeah, I found it really fascinating to that. You mentioned my girls Lyme recovery, so they do the [00:13:00] dynamic neural retraining system that is taught for people that have Lyme disease. Because when you have Lyme, your whole body reacts to every stimulus as a. As a danger, you know, so your limbic system is on high alert.

And so as you bring in joy, joyful thoughts, thoughts of abundance, thoughts of gratitude, it rewires your brain. And those stimuli, which would normally say, Hey, you need to freak out. This is dangerous. Suddenly becomes A friend and nothing to even pay attention to like your limbic system will go. Oh, that’s no big deal and stop firing.

So, Frequently and and and having so so many bad effects on the body. So it’s just fascinating.

Amber: I mean, it really is fascinating. Like. As we continue to learn and discover these things and sometimes people, you know, you, for a while, I think this is [00:14:00] true to some degree still, but not as much as it was maybe in the 90s, people were like, Oh, all this new age stuff and da da da da da.

Now, some of it is new age and might be tapping into spiritual things we shouldn’t be tapping into. But things like rewiring your brain and focusing on what is good and right and true and beautiful truly is what God was already asking us to do in Philippians and in a lot of other places. And so we don’t have to say, because science has now proven it, that it’s new agey, no, like, just connect that to what?

God has already been telling us in his word all along.

Kelly: Yeah, that is such a good point.

Amber: I’m like, don’t give new age people that much credit. Like God’s been asking us to meditate for a long time, not to meditate and empty ourselves so that we can be awesome, but to meditate and focus on the things that we can do.

That he [00:15:00] is created and who he is, and the fact that he doesn’t want us to feel stressed out and hurried and incomplete and like we can do everything by ourselves.

Kelly: Yeah.

Amber: So.

Kelly: Yeah. It’s a whole different way of looking at things. Yeah. It is. So could you describe, you’ve described some of the benefits and I know there’s so many more.

Like we could have better sleep. Your hormones are better. Your immune system is working better. There’s so many benefits to gratitude, but talk to us about some of the practical ways that we can change our habits.

Amber: Yeah, there are so many different ways and I feel like.

One of the best places to start really is with a gratitude journal and that’s what most people Do the most and partially it’s because that’s the easiest place to start And honestly, even after my husband asked me to do that That is what I started to do after I had my first [00:16:00] son. I was just really lonely.

I realize now I was definitely battling postpartum depression. I didn’t get diagnosed with that until my second child, but I would just keep that notebook out on the kitchen table with the goal of every single day writing down 10 things that I was thankful for. And trying to move from that place of I’m thankful for my family to getting very specific.

Even if it was something like, you know, I’m thankful for the giggle that Bennett gave me this morning when he was a baby, you know, so really honing in on specific things about the people in our family that we love. And even doing that while it rewires your brain to be more grateful, what it does even more is just causes you to slow down.

And focus your attention, which is really the big thing with stress [00:17:00] and fear and all of these negative things. If the enemy can just keep us in this hurried frantic pace, then we won’t slow down enough to really dig deep and to meditate or enjoy the things of God. So that’s one way to do it.

Some other practices that over time I have really begun enjoying, is that the right word? Begun? Began? Whichever. You’re good. Either way. I’m a science girl, not a grammar girl. For real it is a common practice around our table, you know, best part of the day, worst part of the day, what you’re thankful for.

And then if you want to ask a question, you can. Now that we have teens, we have switched that to happies, crappies, and thankfuls. I mean, perfect. And it’s funny because my 14 year old was like, you know what? I like happies, crappies, and thankfuls because it [00:18:00] feels like less pressure. And I was like, what?

I mean, because it never felt pressured. I mean, he was like, well, I mean, the best and the worst part of your day feels so, I’m like, oh. No. Just tell us something that was great, something that wasn’t, and tell us something you’re thankful for. A great practice with your family. Yeah. There are other things that I do now where sometimes I’ll do senses gratitude.

So I’ll just slow myself down and, you know, Lord, please help me to see something right now. And, I’ll look around and give God thanks for something that I see something that I smell. Even. Maybe at the moment or just one of my favorite smells in general. Something that I love the taste of you know, here.

And so that is a really, really good one because, again, you’re pulling in what you were talking about earlier, the limbic system, and you’re practicing giving God thanks. And so, Yeah, there’s so, so, so many. I could go on and on and on, pulling [00:19:00] out of Scripture. You know, I do that with Philippians 4. 13.

Is it 4. 13? Might be a different one. Where it’s saying like, give or think on things that are pure. Lovely, honorable, holy and I’m like, okay, God, what are some things that are pure? Because I’m not sure that we really even know things around us that are pure, because we’ve even as evangelicals been so taught to think that, well, nothing is pure but God, yet.

Why would he tell us to think on what is pure if there was nothing out there, like, for example, a rushing waterfall? I mean, there is purity in that. It doesn’t mean that it’s not, doesn’t have some pollution. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about, like, a baby nursing at its mother’s breast is something very pure.

It’s not going to be pure from, you know, from now until all of eternity, but that moment is pure and we can be thankful for that. So, those are a few of [00:20:00] my favorites.

Kelly: Oh, that’s so good. Philippians 4. 8, right? 4. 8. There we go.

Amber: 4. 13 is awesome. I can do all things, right? Yeah,

Kelly: yeah. There we go. Just having that little list in front of you is helpful. , I love those activities of focusing your mind on God throughout the day. Having your journal on the table is a good reminder. Yeah. To slow down and be mindful of what you have to be thankful for. Something susie Larson mentioned that really gave me a deeper way to experience the gratitude.

When I say thanks to God is to imagine like little gifts around your house. And you know, that says this is from God to Susie. And, you know, that is sweet. Thank you, God, for this. This is from you to me. Because really, when you’re saying thank you, what you’re doing is you’re focusing on the heart of God towards you, who pursues you all the time with goodness and mercy.

And so it expands your heart to be aware of [00:21:00] God’s love and presence with you.

Amber: Well, and I think something else that has been so, incredible is, now I can just even walk outside, right? And I won’t even be intentionally. Practicing gratitude, but I just immediately will find myself saying, God, thank you for those beautiful blooms on that tree.

You know, like all of a sudden I just start noticing and instead of just ignoring it, which I’m sure there are plenty of things I go throughout the day and don’t notice, but you just become more quick to give God thanks for a variety of different things in your life, which also. Is prayerful moments, you know, I mean, God says, pray continually.

Well, giving thanks to God is part of prayer. Yeah. And so it really opens up that communication all throughout the day as well.

Kelly: Yeah. That’s beautiful. That’s a really good point. Okay. There’s this quote I heard one time and I don’t really know what I think about it. Like I tried to figure it out through research, but it [00:22:00] says the opposite of fear is not faith.

It’s gratitude. Gratitude. And, and so I wonder about that. Do you have any thoughts?

Amber: You know, it’s interesting. You presented that question to me, and I I do have thoughts. I am someone who really, really struggles with the popularity of sticky statements. Yeah. Or these quick quotes. Yes. Because I think for me, Most of the time, they’re true, but they’re not true 100 percent of the time, and there’s a lot of context behind any of those statements.

Statements, including this one or verses that we just throw out there that are so important for us to not hang our, you know, I mean, we don’t want to hang our hat on the one statement. I will say this. I absolutely think that gratitude is an anecdote to fear.

Kelly: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Amber: [00:23:00] Meaning, when you’re in a fearful situation, if you were to pause long enough and, and just say to the Lord, God, right now, I want to give you thanks and look around and pay attention.

Maybe the only thing you can give thanks for is breath in your lungs. Maybe the only thing you can give thanks for is that you have a place to lay your head at night. You know, whatever it may be, I do think that it helps you to gain clarity in your mind and to set your sights on what is true. And on hope that lies ahead.

I don’t know that it’s the opposite of fear because I think there are many people who can be grateful and still be battling fear.

Yeah.

Amber: I don’t think the two can coexist 100 percent of the time together, but I think there are times that they absolutely can coexist. [00:24:00] And so if they’re the opposite.

Eh, , I just, no, I don’t like it.

Kelly: Okay, you guys, this is my listeners, this is why I love Amber, and this is why you will love her podcast. She does, you know, I love when people throw off the familiar religious statements, that’s why I would never, I don’t put any bumper stickers on my car for the exact same reason.

Most bumper stickers have, they’re just so glib and because we have lived with a lot of suffering and a lot of heartache and people have thrown Romans 8, 28, well, God works all things together for good in a way that was dismissive of our pain and our heartache. There’s no way I would want any words that I said to come across as glib or hurtful to somebody who is walking through something hard.

So. I love the way you take things apart on your podcast, too. You always ask questions like that. Okay. So here’s one [00:25:00] thing that I wanted to focus on, though. I’ve been over the last few months waking up in the morning and saying to myself, Kelly, are you waking up in an abundant mindset or a scarcity mindset?

You know, I need to do that. Are you feeling like everything in your life is not enough and God is not enough and you’re not enough and you don’t have enough time and blah blah blah blah blah blah or are you living the abundance of the kingdom that is actually what the Bible talks about and is actually true about who God is and who you are and so I just want to talk a little bit about what it would mean to live and with an abundant mindset.

And maybe just a couple ways we could develop that. Do you have any thoughts?

Amber: Oh yes, I have thoughts. Even though I don’t know, I don’t want anyone listening to think that this is something I excel at because I fight so hard most days. And gratitude is one of the, it’s one of the reasons why I try to practice it so [00:26:00] faithfully to have an abundant mindset.

Because I do believe that we serve a God who is a God of abundance. And I don’t mean abundance of things or possessions or material wealth or any of that. Yeah. I do believe that he is a God of abundant hope and abundant peace and abundant forgiveness and abundant grace and love and all of those things.

And so, you know, if we’re talking about, I feel like the start of developing that type of mindset has to come from things like, okay, I’m going to practice gratitude or I’m going to establish. Some different habits and rhythms in my daily life that are going to point me in that direction, whether that be, you know, gratitude, daily, getting in the word, daily, moving my body, choosing to [00:27:00] stop three times a day to say one simple prayer until that begins to build up.

Yeah, I don’t know. We can, we can keep talking about that, but I do think when it comes to abundance, that rarely just. flops down on your table just because you’re following Jesus. Right. Not because it’s not available to us.

Kelly: Right. Yeah. I read this quote, I actually posted it this week and it says to believe in abundance is to believe you have enough, even in the wilderness of an uncertain future.

And that just really stretches your imagination to think, Oh wow, okay. That’s a different way of thinking. So I just wanted to throw it in with our gratitude conversation

Amber: well, and I think something too, as I’m sitting here thinking like.

When, for example, when you wake up in the morning and you’re working on, am I waking up with an abundant, feeling like I have all that I need, I have all the time that I need, or am I waking up this way, it’s allowing your mind to say, okay, I have a choice this morning,

, and these are [00:28:00] the things that, again, this is God given.

You know, we can, we ask ourselves questions like that because it puts our brain in a situation where we can make a decision. Which way are we going to go? But all too often, we’re just in such a a rhythm of life that you just don’t know. Move through the motions and you don’t even realize that some of the stuff that’s going on in your life, like not all things, but some things we do end up bringing on ourselves because we just never, we never change the direction of the runaway train, you know, or, and it’s not necessarily like, Oh, pull up your bootstraps and do better.

That’s not what I’m talking about. I mean, it’s just like a tiny little thing. You know, whether it’s the examples we’re talking about here, just waking up and asking a different question or choosing before you open up your phone to walk outside and put your feet on the grass. There’s these little tiny changes in habits that [00:29:00] begin to make an impact and it’s okay if you make those changes and then you kind of fall off the train again.

You know, I mean, that’s also God’s. Abundance, that he will put your feet back on, , the solid ground, the solid foundation. Start again. Start again. I have to start again every day.

Kelly: Yes, there he is. His grace really is enough. Yeah. Praise God. Yes. Praise God. I think one of the things I think a lot is I’m not enough.

And so just to remember that in Christ, I am enough. God is enough. He is able to supply all my needs and all and supply what I need for every responsibility that he has placed before me. And so , those are helpful ways to adjust our thinking as well. Well, I want to shift gears. We, you and I both know people that have walked away from their faith.

I know you’ve talked about that before and you’re currently, maybe this is not the right title, [00:30:00] the interim youth pastor. At your church? Yeah,

Amber: the interim youth coordinator.

Kelly: The interim youth coordinator. So, and you have preteens in your family. And so we know dr. Kara Powell has done some research and she discovered along with her team at the Fuller Youth Institute that almost half of high school seniors drift from their faith. And so I will talk about why in a minute, but

I know you proactively address these things with your kids and the kids that you teach. So tell us about how you deal with that.

Amber: Yeah, when you shared that with me earlier about Cara Powell I found it really fascinating, not surprising, but fascinating. And, and honestly, I can’t speak to it as much as an interim youth coordinator, even though I work with a number of youth, because here’s what I’ve learned in this position for less than a year.

It is far harder than any of you out there think unless you’re the one doing it. Wow. I mean, it’s just far harder [00:31:00] than you think and I don’t mean far harder than you think because like, oh teenagers are just hard I don’t mean that it’s just typically People are spending a youth pastors. I mean Maybe two to four hours a week with students one on one or in a mostly in a group setting.

Yeah, that is not, I’m not saying that you don’t have, they don’t have the impact to do that. To influence a kid’s life. That’s not what I’m saying. Yeah. But parents have far more of an impact on their kid’s lives, and too often, we are leaving it to clergy and a church to disciple our kids, and it’s not a good idea.

Now, that’s my, I’m not saying that church people shouldn’t be doing it, but I’m saying if you think that is what’s going to get them to stay walking with Jesus their middle school and high [00:32:00] school experience with student pastors you’ve got to adjust your thinking. You’ve got to adjust your thinking because it’s not going to be what’s going to do it.

It’s typically. It’s about them making a strong connection with a person that they see living out their faith. Whether, and it might not be that they’re preaching at them, it’s that This person shows up pretty much at everything that really matters in my life.

Hmm.

Amber: This person doesn’t give up on me or run away when really hard things happen to me or my family.

Kelly: Yeah.

Amber: This person knows how to laugh a little bit at me and isn’t constantly going, don’t do that, or Don’t do this, or, why do you do that? Or being very uber religious.

Kelly: They enjoy them, they realize someone values them for who they are.

Amber: Yes. Now, when it comes to my own teens, I am an open book in my home.

[00:33:00] We have spiritual conversations. We have real life conversations. I share. The really dumb decisions that I made as a teenager and I tell them why I think those decisions were stupid And I don’t say because God says in his word not to do that.

Kelly: Yeah now

Amber: do they know? Yes, of course, but what it sounds more like is, you know, God says in his word no sexual immorality.

Why does he say that? Why is that important? And then we have a conversation why that’s important. Well, let me tell you about your mom, you know, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, whatever it was. I mean, not obviously in detail, but I made this decision and what I found to be true was that following God’s way.

Really is a flourishing life because following this other way, while it felt good at the time, led to a lot of heartache [00:34:00] and a lot of disappointment. And while I know sometimes following God leads to heartache and disappointment, for the most part, when we are acting in his ways, it is a flourishing life.

Kelly: Yeah, absolutely.

Amber: And those are the kinds of conversations we’re constantly having about, about all the things. Just this week., I was journaling back and forth with my oldest son and The question was, what question would you like to ask God?

Well, instead of it being something kind of, surface y, I mean, I went for my own struggle. Like, I’m very honest, too, with, yeah, I’m not sure if I agree with that, or I do struggle with the fact of, is God always good? And then I don’t leave it at that, but we’re having conversations about, well, what does it look like when you doubt that God is good?

What, how do we manage that? Because the time is gonna come that you’re gonna, you’re gonna face that question at some point in your life.

Kelly: Yeah.

Amber: So, you know, it’s stuff like that and I just feel like not slapping cheesy [00:35:00] Bible answers on it is probably the best way for your kids to have a sticky face.

Kelly: Yes, yes. And you know what Dr. Kara Powell and her cohort they wrote the Sticky Faith book series and it’s worth looking up. But as they did their extensive research, they determined that the reason people walk away is because they didn’t know how to process their doubts or their disappointments and what you’re talking about.

These questions that you’re working out with your kids as you’re helping them learn how to be honest about what they’re feeling to help them process their view of God to help them process their disappointments and even even to know that you can ask God tough questions like some, some of them didn’t know that.

And so, because they had a tough question, they would turn their back on God, because they thought, well, I don’t know what to do with this. So I’m giving up on him.

Amber: Yeah, and I’ve also learned with just kids too, what I, how I think they might be processing something [00:36:00] is not necessarily how they’re processing it.

So then it’s amazing when you come back around and you say, Oh, I didn’t realize that’s what you thought when I said that. No, let’s talk about that again. So I think that’s why like one on one relationships for people is so important, particularly, I think for anybody, but particularly for kids who are raised in the church because they are getting so much of the Christian ease that at times they just get to the point where they’re like, I don’t believe it.

I don’t believe all of the stuff you’re saying because my parents marriage did fall apart. Yeah. Or, I got to college and it Those friends weren’t very fun. Now I think you have to be an authentic Christian, but Christianity is not boring.

Kelly: Yeah.

Amber: It’s not.

Kelly: It’s really not.

Amber: So, I mean, there’s just, there’s a lot of, yeah, there’s a lot of things, but I think deep, serious being honest with your kids, being willing to have a little bit of an argument, being willing to [00:37:00] say, Hmm, I don’t agree with you or what are we going to do about that?

All of those things really help them learn how to process and cling to their faith when things are hard. Yeah.

Kelly: Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. That’s exactly. Well, I, I think you would enjoy the sticky faith books because there’s exactly what you do.

Amber: Shoot. I should have thought about that.

I could have written it myself. No, I’m

Kelly: sure you can draw some into your own book.

Amber, you have a lot of helpful resources on your website. So I’d really like it if you would just let our listeners know what’s out there for you. You have a lot of helpful things.

Amber: Yeah. So Grace Enough podcast. com, I would say the one thing that may Really be something that your listeners, because we’re talking about gratitude, could benefit from is the free gratitude practice that I have, and that’s, like I said, it’s at graceandfpodcast.

com slash free gratitude practice, and it’s a two week, it might be a four week, I have both, sometimes I don’t know which one I have up [00:38:00] there. But it’s a daily practice of different ways to engage and think about gratitude. Everything from some different scripture references and how to work through those with being thankful to a couple of different worship songs to several different ideas that I feel like are very helpful.

And then there are other resources there. There are prayers and how to start a family Sabbath practice and a few other resources.

Kelly: Well, thank you so much. And I do want to just mention again, your Grace is Enough podcast. You’ve interviewed some fabulous, fabulous people. I enjoy it very much.

Amber: Thanks so much, Kelly. It’s a blessing to be here.

If you were encouraged in your faith today, it’d be great. If you’d help get the word out by subscribing, sharing with a friend or leaving a review, I’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, kelly hall. org and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the unshakable whole [00:39:00] podcast.