Podcast

How Do We Pray When We’re Desperate? Rachel Wojo

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Unshakable Hope Podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions, such as how do I trust God’s heart when His ways and delays are breaking mine? We’ll hear from people just like you and me, who have experienced God’s faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected.

My prayer is that God would renew our hope in His Word and His love through these conversations.

Kelly: Hey, friends, I am so honored today to share a conversation with someone I greatly admire. She’s deeply authentic and is someone I consider a mentor as well as a friend. Rachel Wojo is joining me. She’s been on this podcast before. And today we’re talking about her brand new, beautiful book.

Entitled: Desperate Prayers, Embracing the Power of Prayer [00:01:00] in Life’s Darkest Moments. It’s available for pre order now, and I highly recommend it.

I want to let you know how you can enter a drawing to receive a free copy of Rachel’s beautiful book. I’m so excited to be able to bless someone with this gift. To enter. Simply go to my Instagram page, kelly. marie. hall, click the button to follow the page, like the giveaway post, which contains a picture of Rachel’s book.Then in the comments, tag two friends, your name will be entered into a drawing and a winner will be chosen on October 10th.

So just three quick things: kelly. marie. hall, follow the page, like the giveaway post, and then in the comments, tag two friends.

I’m so excited about being able to bless someone with the gift of this book. So I hope that you’ll participate.

Kelly: Let me introduce you to Rachel now. She is an inspirational author, speaker, and podcaster. [00:02:00] Rachel empowers women to discover strength and hope in everyday situations through her biblical approach and her personal life experiences. Despite enduring the loss of her mother, her adult special needs daughter, and her father. Rachel remains resilient.

She’s deeply in love with her husband, Matt, and cherishes her motherhood with six children on earth and two in heaven. Rachel, thank you so much for taking the time to join me for this conversation.

Rachel: Kelly. I appreciate your heart for God so much. And I am grateful to you for giving me this privilege of being on your podcast.

And I also just want to say that, we have so much in common from a heart perspective, as far as taking care of special needs children. And there’s a bond there that just is, it’s really unique. And so I appreciate you in a beautiful way, your heart in a beautiful [00:03:00] way because of that. So thank you for hosting me today.

I also appreciate your excellence, the way that you run your podcast and the way that you work so hard to make it a beautiful opportunity for your guests and for your listeners. And so thank you for that. Thank you for your excellence.

Kelly: Hmm. Thank you so much, Rachel. Those words mean more than I can say.

Your desperate prayers book, I’ve got to say it’s so rich. It feels like a friend is just coming alongside a hurting heart and handing them words to pray when they don’t have words. So I would love for you to share with us what prompted you to write this book. book.

Rachel: Kelly, first I need to tell you that I have this old pit bull who often decides she wants to come in my office whenever I’m storytelling.

I don’t know if it’s that she senses [00:04:00] that I’m emotional and need support. But if you, if you hear anything, it is her. If you hear noises, like grunting and groaning, I promise you, it’s not me. To answer your question, wow, I have been in some really dark places in life and not just for brief moments, but my special needs daughter, Taylor, who passed away January 2nd, 2019 at the age of 22 was given a lifespan of 10 to 15 years at age four. And so not only did we Watch her suffering neurologically declining for year after year after year.

But we also, our family walked through her heavenly home going. And I say that in a way that makes it sound beautiful, but we all know if you’ve sat with a [00:05:00] loved one in death, it is a really, a really difficult and heart wrenching thing to do. And so I can’t adequately describe that season, but to try to share in this book, desperate prayers.

If I only had one opportunity to write another book, because, you know, I wrote 2015, One More Step: Finding Strength when You Feel Like Giving Up. And so much of it was about my daughter and how we found the path, our family found the path through God’s word and through a relationship with him to living a life of fulfillment and joy in spite of the sorrow we were facing and walking through.

And I just determined when I got to this point Taylor passed away January 2nd, 2019. And then a little time passed and I realized, okay, the, Opportunity the [00:06:00] season to write another book is upon me. And I began to say, okay, Lord, what do you want this book to be about? How do I encapsulate the overarching idea and thoughts of the deep places that you’ve met us and how that has happened.

And. I could not get away from the fact that no matter what was happening in our lives, the power of prayer undergirded every circumstance and situation and developing that close relationship with God to where I not only knew that I could turn to him with every kind of emotion and in every detail, but I also knew that he was I’m going to be speaking back to me and that he was listening and that it was a two way relationship.

And so my idea was just really that to encourage other people to embrace the power of prayer as simple as it may sound, that in those [00:07:00] darkest most terrible times that we have, whether it’s trauma, grief, loss, no matter the issue, those times we have this pivotal choice that we’re making, we can either turn to God or we can turn away from him.

Kelly: Yeah.

Rachel: And, and that choice, it seems like, oh, everyone knows we have that choice and we can either turn to God or turn away from him. But what I know that, you know, because of your own experience, Kelly, is that it’s not a one and done decision. It’s a decision that we make over and over and over again, as we surrender ourselves to God.

So I, I pray. That that answers your question of what prompted me to write it. I hope that in a nutshell, that helps explain my heart behind taking the the time and the energy and the [00:08:00] effort to really put that book out in the world.

Kelly: Yeah, that’s, it’s so beautiful and chokes me up.

One of the things one of the things I love so much and I, I say that what rescued me from deep, deep places of weariness is that God is a God who speaks.

Rachel: Yes,

Kelly: and each chapter in your book elaborates on a three word prayer. That is so helpful for us when we’re in deep sorrow and we don’t know how to even talk to God, but yet it helps us make a choice.

Like you were talking about. Yeah. To turn our hearts to him and simply remain in conversation with him.

Rachel: Yeah. Because

Kelly: that’s the first key, right?

Rachel: Right, right, right. I think that those three word prayers at the beginning of each chapter, the point of those is to simplify. What we need to do [00:09:00] because all of us in this day and age are inundated with information.

We’re on information overload. And when you are experiencing deep grief, and loss, it is impossible sometimes to get your words to go out of your head, out of your mouth. And so to make that process happen, we have to simplify and really just narrow it down. And so that was my goal in creating those three word prayers for each chapter to focus on God, see me, God, hold me, God, heal me, God, help me.

Each chapter has its own heading. And the reason for those prayers is because We think that is really big and complicated. Sometimes as Christians, like we heard, I don’t know about you, Kelly, but I grew up in church. And so I heard praying my entire life, you know, you had the formal usher who. Left all [00:10:00] his these and vows at the offering plate when he asked for the blessing over, over the prayer.

And my hope is that those three word prayers do what you just said, that they ground people and give them an opportunity to. Focus on just a few simple thoughts rather than making prayer, this big, complicated, convoluted communication where there’s only right one right way.

Kelly: Hmm. That’s so good. One of the things I also love about your book, Rachel, is how each chapter grabs hold of a Bible character that you refer to as a desperado. I’m wondering if you could elaborate on one of these and just how their story helped you pray when your heart was desperate.

Rachel: Yeah, so the characters of the Bible their prayers are just so intriguing to me because as I have repeatedly read those prayers, I [00:11:00] recognized my own emotional turmoil in their words, but then I also began to understand there are patterns here that I can take home and use for myself in this present day life, not just in biblical times, and one of those Prayers comes through the book of a Habbakuk. It’s not a very common book. It’s not a book that you might hear sermons every Sunday.

It’s just one of the minor prophets. And I always joke and say minor prophets meaning that they didn’t quite make the bestsellers list went in their day, but that’s just a joke. It’s not true, but you know, the book of Habakkuk is full of prayers. It begins with Habakkuk’s complaints. It can begins with God.

I’m weary. This, all these things are happening and nothing good is happening. We’re at war. Our people are devastated. And then [00:12:00] there’s God’s response to that. And then. Habakkuk comes back with more complaints. And so I think even just in his book alone and in his prayers alone, I’m reminded that God can handle anything we bring to him.

He can handle the complaints when I’m complaining to him, he is not saying, Oh, you Bad little girl, that, that is not the heart of our father. He is welcoming me and he’s saying, well, let’s talk about this. Just like we would with our children. We love them when they’re having a bad day. We don’t say, we’ll go to your room because bad days are not part of my agenda.

We say, let’s sit down and talk about it. What can I do? And I want to listen to hear what you have to say. And that’s what God does for us. We can drop the guilt and the [00:13:00] shame that comes with us thinking we’d have to have ourselves all together before we get to him. Now there will be transformation that happens.

He’s okay with the starting point. It doesn’t matter to him where we’re starting from. And that’s what Habakkuk shows to me. There’s so much more in depth in the story of Habakkuk and , in the book, each chapter has one of those Bible desperados, and they’re, Pitiful prayers and really dives into what we can learn from each one of them.

But I think with Habakkuk, what I learned is at the end of his book, he’s really only a short few chapters and it’s a very short read, but his prayer in the latter part. He’s still saying all the things that haven’t happened yet. His situation has not changed. He still doesn’t see any vineyards growing.

He does. It still doesn’t see crops that are in the ground and food that is being developed for his [00:14:00] people. He’s still seeing war and pestilence and famine. But in the midst of all that, you get to the last few verses and he says, And yet, and it’s this pivotal turning point in his prayer, and he praises God because he knows that God is going to provide for him, be the presence that he needs, that it is it.

In God that he is trusting. And so the process of the whole book of Habakkuk has been him learning to take his complaints to God, God speaking back to him and then him, him recognizing I can trust God. He is a trustworthy God. So this process happens very quickly for us in the, in the book of Habakkuk.

And that’s what makes it great for us today, because some of us have attention Issues were ADHD, we’re [00:15:00] unfocused. And so the short book of the Bible is such a beautiful example of that.

Kelly: It is, it is such a powerful story.

So after your sweet Taylor passed into the arms of Jesus, I’m just wondering what were the hardest words that you had to speak to your heart?

Rachel: It’s a really hard question and I appreciate you asking it because not. Every interviewer is unabashedly, willing to allow me to answer that question and the really hard answer to that question for your readers, your listeners who are hearing this podcast is I did not die when my daughter died.

I felt like I died when she died. And I. Honestly, at some point wished that I could have died in her place or wished that I was no longer living and [00:16:00] breathing. Yeah, after she died, but I would tell myself. I did not die when my daughter died. God has a purpose and a plan for me. I will see her again.

And it was just that succinct. Like I had no brain power to operate in long paragraphs or luscious essays. I could barely string two words together.

Kelly: And

Rachel: so I would tell myself I did not die when my daughter died. God has a plan and a purpose for me. I will see her again. And that would give me enough mantra after just praying, Lord, help me get out of this bed.

Lord, help me put my feet on the floor. Help me make lunches for my kids. Help me get my husband to work. I mean, it was just I would pray all of those steps. And then after everyone was out the door and we had gotten through another morning to get [00:17:00] everyone where they needed to be for the day, I would tell myself those words.

I did not die when my daughter died. God has a plan and a purpose for me. I will see her again, and that would be enough to where I could do the next right thing. I built a lot of, a lot of margin into my life and did a lot less than I ever had after she passed away. But I think there’s someone listening right now who’s going through really hard things, watching your mother suffer with cancer, taking care of your elderly parents, watching your children.

Walk through infertility. I don’t know what horrible, awful situation you have happening in your life right now, but I do know that God has a purpose and a plan for you. I do know that you will see your loved ones again in heaven. And I do know that right here, right now, my message to [00:18:00] you is turn to God.

Turn to him, develop your relationship with him so that you can do what Kelly just said earlier. You can not only talk to God, but you can hear him speak to you and affirm to your heart the next best thing.

Kelly: Amen. That is profound. Thank you for being vulnerable enough to offer that as a gift to our listeners today.

Throughout the book, Rachel, you invite readers to draw near to God’s heart through so many hopeful reminders of the truth that God sees you. God sees us when we are desperate. God is moving and working in our times of desperation. We don’t have to convince him to pay attention. And so I’m wondering if you could just share the journey of financial hardship you opened your book with, would you mind sharing that story with [00:19:00] us?

Rachel: I would love to share that. So, in 2019, you’ve heard that my daughter passed away and what happened in 2019 after that she passed away January 2nd, 2019 that fall. The Lord just there’s a whole miraculous story that’s outlined in desperate prayers of how the Lord moved us into a new home, just a few miles away from where we had lived growing our family for so many years and things seem to be so wonderful and beautiful until what happened that, uh, really changed the whole world.

In that timeframe was COVID 19

Kelly: COVID

Rachel: 19 happened. And it really, if you think back about it in those years, our lives were so different than what they are even now. Right. And so in 2020, I was in this mode of just thanking the Lord that all of our [00:20:00] family had work. I felt like it was just. There, everyone I knew around me was struggling financially because their jobs were closed or they were forced to go on unemployment or, you know, just so many different scenarios and our family managed to keep all of our jobs.

My son was still working. My daughter was still working. My husband was still working. I was still working. And it just seems like God’s special protection was around us. And it wasn’t until March of 2021 that my husband came home from work and without any notice, without any warning, he was let go from his job.

Kelly: Wow.

Rachel: I just remember we had been praying for a long time. I had been praying for at least three years that the Lord would move him because it did not feel it was a good work environment. Definitely wasn’t Christian environment. Definitely wasn’t edifying [00:21:00] in any way. And so we were just, I was praying that the Lord would, would move him.

And so my husband came home from work that day and he told us, Hey, I’ve been let go for my life. Job and I just said, I think this is from the Lord and you may be listening, going, what your husband getting fired was from the Lord. I really just believed like God’s going to provide for us. You’re in this season for a reason.

I don’t understand it all. I can’t pretend to understand it all, but I have a piece. Now that was in that moment. I’ve already explained to you that moment by moment we make these choices. Right. And so in my private quiet time, I was like, okay, God, what are you doing? And so. I took it to my friends and let me just say, Kelly, it’s important to have praying friends.

I took it to my friends and I said, gosh, we need prayer. My husband was like, go [00:22:00] from his job. I don’t know what’s going to happen to our home, to our grocery bill. We have kids in school, you know, none of those bills stop coming in just because you’re not working.

And so my friend, Julie. Specifically prayed that God would bring an avalanche. He would bring an avalanche of finances. We’re all praying in our prayer time. And she says, Lord, bring an avalanche of finances. And I just locked because I’m a word girl. I, I locked my head around those words and. Time passed, there are miracle after miracle happened.

And I share many of those in the book, how God provided for us time and time again, through little things here and there. And there were some bigger things along the way that happened as well. Monumental things. But one particular thing that happened did not occur until November. Finally, in November, my husband was able to go back to work in a contract position. [00:23:00] And I was grateful because he had gone for nine months without a job and we were both grateful that he had work. He was back to work. It was before the holidays. And so we just both really felt like God had answered the prayer, but at the same time, we had this backlog.

Right. This backlog of finances, this backlog of issues. And we’re looking at the holidays coming up Christmas season. And so, you know, your kids don’t stop growing. Their needs don’t stop happening. And I finished the podcast one day and I went to the kitchen sink actually no it was a long day of coaching.

I went to the kitchen sink and started clearing out the kitchen and I received a text and the text said, Rachel, don’t, you don’t know me. But a friend wants to give you a gift. Go outside in your backyard and look for a yellow envelope underneath the green balance beam. And I just looked at that text going, okay, is this for real?[00:24:00]

Like, should I go get the pepper spray first? What should I do before I walk out there? But it seemed so otherworldly that I thought, Okay, we’re going to do this. And I put my shoes on and I went out to the backyard and sure enough, there was a yellow envelope underneath the balance beam and I picked it up and I ran to the garage where my husband was working on building prayer card stands and I, I gave it to him, the text to him and I said, read this in the middle of that I’m holding this yellow envelope.

My hands are shaking and I open it up and inside is another envelope with a typed letter and I opened the type letter and it said, Matt, Rachel and family, God sees you, nothing escapes his notice and it had the verse, the angel of the Lord has found you in the wilderness. [00:25:00] And then it proceeded to say, the angel of the Lord has found you in the wilderness.

Nothing escapes his notice. This is a reward for your faithfulness from his faithfulness to you, essentially, and no name, no signature, all typed. And so I. Didn’t really know what to do except to open up the next envelope, which was a bank envelope i, I just was flabbergasted. I don’t know if another word to describe this huge stack of cash in this bank envelope, and I pull it out and the first five bills were $20 bills.

So I thought, Oh my goodness, someone has given us so much money. I’ve never held that much cash. In my hands before in my whole life. And I started to fan it and realized that only the first five were 20 bills and every bill after that was a 100 bill. [00:26:00] Wow. Someone had dropped 5, 000 cash.

In our backyard, and I knew that that someone was God, and I’m just here to share that story because maybe the person listening right now is like, woo, sign me up for that. I would love to have 5, 000 drop. I mean, I can hardly believe that that is part of our family’s story. And the coolest part about that, Kelly.

Is that our kids got to see God’s provision in a real and tangible way, and they got to be witnesses to the fact that God answers prayer. He provides for his children in unexpectable, unexpected, unexplainable and tangible ways he provides for his children. And so I pray that that is an encouragement to your listeners today to know that.

God sees you. He hears you and he knows your [00:27:00] need. And when I say that it is not a cliche, it is deeply, profoundly intimate principle that I’ve seen in my own life.

Kelly: Amen. He is a generous Provider of everything that we need and I love I’m a word person too. I love the avalanche. You know, you prayed an avalanche.

God put that on her heart because he was about to provide an avalanche. Yes. That is so beautiful. Well, I’d like to read a quote from your book and let you elaborate, Rachel.

Yes.

If let there be light resulted in galaxies Even the most powerful tools have yet to discover. Imagine what might be possible when you yield to the spirit of God and the words he speaks on your behalf.[00:28:00]

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. So we are, our minds are so limited, right? And you know, that I’m a strategy girl, you know, me from behind the scenes in my role at speak up ministries as the growth groups director. And I believe in strategy and trying to walk out what God’s called us to do. But I really think that the sooner we admit that we are limited, frail human beings created from dust.

And we allow ourselves to. Understand that there’s so much more to this life, to this world than what our minds can even comprehend. And there’s so much more to heaven. When you think about the fact that even just those galaxies that are out there that have been yet. Unfound, because we don’t have the equipment necessary to figure out how far, how big, how wide is the universe.[00:29:00]

Kelly: If

Rachel: we can’t figure out how big, how far, how wide is the universe, what makes us think that God is in a box and he can only operate in the parameters of our understanding and that his love is only as big as what we can comprehend because it’s so much bigger. It’s so much greater. And when we step into, uh, that full surrender.

And saying, God, I know you are so much bigger. I know you are so much greater. I know that your plan for me, your purpose for my life is more than I can comprehend, reveal it to me, show me how to walk out what you have put in my life and how to live day by day, even when there’s desperation, even when there’s Horrible moments.

So I hope that that quote is really [00:30:00] resonating with someone who just feels like, I don’t need God. I, I just want to say to you as humans in the universe, think about. What you are saying to yourself in this moment of feeling like you don’t need God, because I can’t live without him. And that really is the crux of this book, that these times of desperation can be used as a unique, beautiful, holy experiences to fuel us to dependence on God.

And that dependence on God is what then fuels us for the rest of our life. I worried Kelly that I worried that after Taylor went to heaven, I would forget what it was like to be desperate for Jesus because she kept me tethered to Jesus and all the suffering and all that she walked through kept me [00:31:00] so close to the Lord because I knew no other way.

And so I worry that, well, with Taylor in heaven, I might forget. And I am so happy to share with you that I haven’t forgotten. Praise the Lord. He’s used other things and the path of walking that journey of suffering with her taught me that I Wanted to be dependent on him that I long for that. And so rather than forgetting, it’s actually the fuel that keeps me there.

And I just want that so much for other people. I want them to experience what I’ve experienced in that closeness with the Lord. And so this book is my futile attempt to encourage that.

Kelly: That is beautiful. Our God is, you do this throughout the book. You connect people to hope out of your very hard story. But I [00:32:00] just want to encourage people that this book is going to continually shine the light of God’s love into the depths of your heart and bring comfort. , your book just shouts the truth that our God is immensely powerful, but also intensely personal.

Rachel: Yes, that is so true. So, so true.

Kelly: One of the things you write is whatever keeps you awake at night Is what God wants to use to move you closer to him? It’s such a beautiful reminder that God’s always with us and he’s already Actively working in the area that is so deeply concerning to your heart

Rachel: Mm hmm For sure.

And you know, as the mom of a special needs child, I hardly slept. I feel like I really struggled with sleep the entire Taylor’s entire life. I, I just had a way of sleeping [00:33:00] very lightly. It was like one ear was always tuned to what might be happening in a room or what might be happening on the monitor.

or what the nurse might be doing. I always had an ear tuned. And so the night, the darkness of night is a very real concept to me for so many reasons, but I really believe whatever it is that keeps you up at night. I had some real tangible fears of things happening at night and they may seem silly.

I share some of them. In the book, and they may seem silly, but they were very real to me in those times. And there is no night. So dark. I have walked through some of the darkest nights, the dark night of losing my mom, the dark night of losing my child, the dark night of losing more recently, even my dad.

Then four months later, my father in law, I have walked through those dark nights. And what I can tell you is [00:34:00] that the light of God shines the brightest on the darkest nights.

Kelly: So powerful. Thank you for that beautiful blessing. Again, I just want everybody to remember Rachel’s book is so beautiful. And the title of it again is desperate prayers, embracing the power of prayer in life’s darkest moments.

It is available for pre order now. I’m going to let Rachel speak to you about that. And then I’m going to have her close with some special words of encouragement for our listeners who might be feeling weary. Today.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. I would love that. Thank you. So I guess Kelly, what I would say about asking people to buy a book is that I’m not the greatest marketer in the world and I’m not super, salesy or, I just want to

let people know that if you pre order desperate at [00:35:00] desperate prayers. com, then you can start getting the help that you need right away. You don’t have to wait for the book to release October 8th because this pre order is available. And so when you fill out the form, we’re giving you the first three chapters to start reading right away.

And I know as someone who I’m an avid reader, I love to be able to start reading something right away. Right? So If you preorder right now, all the way through October 8th, when the book releases, you’ll be able to read those first three chapters. So I would just love for you to take advantage of that offer at desperate prayers.

com. And then let me just, I rather than saying a few encouraging words, Kelly, would it be okay if I just pray for the people who are listening right now? I just really believe that there will be people listening to this who Are in hard, difficult, challenging spaces that can’t even be described. You can’t [00:36:00] even find the words.

And so I just want to pray for you right now, Lord, you are God and you love us so much and you show up in the wildest of ways that break our imaginations, that break. Everything we think that we know about you, you surprise us and you lavish, lavish, your great love on us. And so for the people who are listening right now, who are walking through hard and challenging roads, God, they’re, they’re walking through.

Cancer and they’re walking through disease and they’re walking through pain. They’re walking through loved ones who are far from God and all of these different heartbreaking circumstances that we encounter on this side of heaven. And so, Lord, I am asking you to just sweep over them [00:37:00] with a balm of your mercy and grace.

Give them just enough light for today through this podcast, through Kelly’s graciousness to be faithful to do what you’ve called her to do in broadcasting, that you would just lavish on them. This opportunity to grab a resource that will be helpful. And Lord, if they’re unable to purchase this resource, help them understand that there are other free resources available to them, that all they need to do is reach out.

And both Kelly and I would love to be able to help them either connect with you more deeply and provide resources for that, or even just have conversation about. Loving you and learning to love you and learning to speak to you so that we can hear you listen and hear you respond. I ask now that you would just give a profound [00:38:00] anointing over this episode and that the people who are listening to this episode of Kelly’s beautiful podcast would understand that we long for you.

We long for you, but until we reach your heavenly throne, we have access. We have access. And all we need to do is turn to you. So I ask for the one whose heart is wandering, or who’s at that pivotal crossroad of trying to decide, do I turn towards God or do I turn away, help them to make that decision to turn towards you, and then to have the strength to repeat that decision each day as you unload your purpose and plan for them.

We ask and pray this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.

Kelly: Amen. Rachel, thank you so much. Today was an incredible blessing.

Rachel: I am so honored that you [00:39:00] allowed me to be a part, Kelly. And I just pray that the Lord can continue to unfold and unleash his mighty blessings on you and your family.

Kelly: Thank you.

I’d love to bless someone with the gift of Rachel’s book. So please hop on over to my Instagram page, kelly. marie. hall, enter the giveaway by simply doing the three things I mentioned previously, follow the page, like the giveaway post. And then tag two friends in the comments, Rachel and I are praying that the message from this conversation infused your heart with the unshakable hope of Jesus and brought strength to places in your life where you might be feeling weary.

God bless you.

 

If you were encouraged in your faith today, it’d be great if you’d help get the word out by subscribing, sharing with a friend or leaving a review. I’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, [00:40:00] kellyhall. org and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the Unshakable Hope Podcast.