Podcast

From Fixer to Faithful, A Journey Through Loss: Jackie Freeman

Jackie: [00:00:00] I remember the moment just thinking, you know, control is just an illusion. And that real comfort doesn’t come from a life of no troubles. It comes from discovering the comforter who meets us in the middle of those troubles.

Jackie: We were married 40 years and in some ways those last seven and a half were some of the best. I’ll tear up a little here, but one of the most, moving moments was when he passed in my arms. And, I believe at that moment I was as close to the Lord as I have ever been. It was holding the hands of the man you love, as you know, the next hand he was going to hold was the Lord’s.

Welcome to the Unshakable whole podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions such as, how do I trust God’s heart when his ways and delays are breaking mind? We’ll hear from people just like you and me who have [00:01:00] experienced God’s faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected my prayers, that God would renew our hope and his word and his love through these conversations.

hey guys. Although this conversation was recorded several months ago, I’m releasing it right after Thanksgiving, and I know this time of year can be especially hard for those who have experienced the loss of loved ones.

I’m praying for every listener that you would sense the peace and comfort of the Lord in your own journey. My guest today has experienced this, God has transformed her from someone who felt responsible from fixing everything and everyone in her life, to someone who has learned in deeper ways to trust the Lord through her long journey of love loss, and healing.

She and her husband have raised three boys on a 60 acre farm in Michigan, so you can imagine all the [00:02:00] adventures, plus all the times the Lord has invited her to trust him rather than herself. Later she became the caregiver for her dad going through Alzheimer’s and during that same season, her dear husband was diagnosed with grade four glioblastoma. She’ll be sharing some of the lessons of surrender. The Lord has worked deeply into her life.

Jackie Freeman is a speaker, author, and encourager and her heart beats to inspire women to walk confidently in the center of God’s will no matter what season of life they’re in. After the loss of her husband, Jackie found healing through writing music and the unexpected joy of playing pickleball. Out of this part of her journey, she wrote a children’s picture book: bend your knees. Louise, which is a pickleball primer. And then she also wrote a devotional book for adults called Pickleball Parables. I think this part of her journey just highlights the creative beauty of our God [00:03:00] and the truth that he has a purpose in a plan for each one of us, and our particular healing journey may surprise us. All of her devotional work is infused with wisdom, humor, and deep spiritual insights drawn from real life on and off the court.

So Jackie, welcome to the show

Jackie: oh, Kelly, thank you for that wonderful description.

Kelly: I’m glad you’re here. , I know you have this really long story, but you’ve learned how to surrender and I think that’s the journey we’re all on.

Kelly: That’s been a big part of my journey as well. Learning to trust in the Lord rather than myself. My courageous faith Bible study was framed around that, can you give us just some examples of what it might have looked like? In your early life what did it look like for you to be a person that just wanted to control and fix everything?

Jackie: Well, Kelly, I mean, it goes way back. I am an only child and my parents doted on me. I. I was really encouraged to do anything, [00:04:00] do everything, and I grew up in the height of the feminist movement you know, I am woman. Hear me roar. Helen Reddy became, like my mantra song and, I thought I could do everything and I believed I could do everything.

Jackie: I came to know Christ as my savior, but I was certain he needed me to do a lot of the things in my little corner of the world. So I often say in some of my writings, you know, I was the little girl that wore the red cape who ended up being the woman with the red high heels in the corner office.

Jackie: Society encouraged that independence and the little Miss Independent that I was suddenly found my identity as a codependent. Based on how well I could get the affirmation from others, how well I could care for others, and particularly in my husband and my father’s health crises, I felt that I would fail if I couldn’t do it [00:05:00] all for them.

Jackie: So I became so codependent, and it was when I realized I needed to become more God dependent in my life. I was we could go way back over 73 years of a lifetime, but I was one that could win the Bible drills. I could quote all the scriptures as a child attended every time the door was were open and the church sang in the choir.

Jackie: But I don’t know that I was doing as Matthew, we tells us in Matthew, you know, do all things for the glory of God. I was doing many things, so letting my light shine so others could see me without the glory of God.

Kelly: That’s so interesting. So do you feel like a lot of your identity was really based on what you produced and what people thought of you

Jackie: well, yes. I thought, oh, I nailed it. You know, that was what I would say. I nailed it. You did that, you did a good job. You do like the accolades of other people? Certainly. I guess that’s what I, what fed my desire. I was putting my pride and my stubbornness and my [00:06:00] self will ahead of what God’s designs were for me.

Jackie: And, I’m sad that I had many opportunities that I did not do what I know the Lord had opened a door for me to do. But I am grateful that he never gave up on me and his faithfulness. Through all of my journey has been now, and I say to you, you joked about pickleball, but , through my grief, I see now that has become the platform for most of the speaking that I encounter.

Jackie: Pickleball might be my invitation, but God is opening those doors because I am allowing myself to be vulnerable and to be honest with God and with myself. Honesty was the first step in my healing. I think when I finally could say, Lord, I can’t do this. I don’t know what to do.

Jackie: Learning to say, Lord, I can’t imagine what you’re going to do with this. You know? And that’s, that’s a flip in my thinking.

Kelly: I can’t tell you how [00:07:00] much I love that. Telling the truth. That was the biggest breakthrough in my life when I was just a young mom, just panicked, panicked, full of fear.

Kelly: Like,

Kelly: oh my goodness, how do I take care of these four kids, three of them with special needs, I was just so fearful that there was no way through this journey, and I remember pouring out my heart to God and then God pouring his truth into me, and, my heart was so filled with hope, and that was the first time I understood, oh my goodness, if I tell God the truth and I pour out everything in me, it’s like it almost makes space for his truth to reach those parts of fear, and it just wipe the fear away.

Jackie: You’re so right. I think, one of the sayings when we write, from a perspective of having a trauma or an experience, we often say you need to heal before you reveal the story that we’re going to write or talk about. But I use that same analogy with the Lord. He can’t really heal what I’m not willing to reveal [00:08:00] to him and to myself.

Jackie: And that is how, how weak we are. And in doing so, surrendering that to him. You find his strength is so much more stronger and his strength has so much more peace in it. It’s not a mightiness, it’s a peaceful surrender of finding his strength for me. He won’t heal what I’m not willing to reveal to him or to myself, so if I go to the Lord and say, Lord, please do this, A, B, C, and D, you know, and he’s already known what the A, B, C, and D is.

Jackie: But he’s waiting for me to reveal, Lord, I can’t do this. I’m depleted of all energy. I no longer need to nail it. Because you nailed it on the cross. Mm-hmm. And all of the things that I’ve done, all of the things that I will do and do today need to be honoring and glorifying you and Jesus Christ, my savior.

Jackie: Sometimes we get so caught up [00:09:00] in the doing that we forget that we are human beings and I think we need to. Be still with the Lord. And maybe for me this is easier living on a 60 acre farm. It is a lot of work. It is a lot of activity and hustle and bustle. And you can, you were right when you said those boys, when they were young.

Jackie: I prayed for a day of peace and quiet. But after the death of my husband and both of my parents and our youngest son got married, you know. The farm is really quiet and it’s not as peaceful. It’s more of an unsettling until I stop and look and soak in God’s creation. And that’s when I realized, oh, he was there all the time.

Jackie: Waiting patiently in line. That’s one of the songs. You alluded to music, part of my writing and healing. I haven’t shared this with you before Kelly, but my mother was a wonderful pianist and, when she passed away, it was tremendously hard for me to grasp music, worship or anything for quite a [00:10:00] while.

Jackie: And when I held the sheet music that she played for me as a soloist, that was really when I began the writing journey of my life with the Lord and using songs that she played for me as a soloist. And he was there all the time, waiting patiently in line. Time after time I went searching for peace in some void.

Jackie: I was trying to blame all the ills on the world I was in. I mean, isn’t that my life is, I mean, many of us could probably say, yeah, I was trying to blame everyone else. Yeah. And God was just so patient waiting in line. He was there all the time.

Kelly: Wow. That’s so true. He is always there. He’s always there with us.

Kelly: He’s already gone before us. He loves us so much and God is always pursuing our hearts. We are not responsible. I’m like, we think we’re in charge of everything and the Lord is always just saying.

Kelly: Come away with me. Talk to me about this. I’ve got you. I already know what you need. I [00:11:00] already know I already have this situation in my hands. You can trust me. Come to me. I love this so much about the Lord. Well, Jackie, would you take us into your journey? I know that you were challenged so much.

Kelly: We wanna hear about some of , the caregiving and the loss of your husband because that was a huge, huge, huge time of really learning to trust God in a time when your faith was stretched,

Jackie: well, Kelly, your podcast is titled Unshakeable and I think my hope we often use that word, you know, oh, I hope it’s a good day today. Or I hope, you know, we use that word rather casually, but when you are encountered with a traumatic situation as brain cancer, stage four, given six months to live, and, , my husband lived seven and a half years, so caregiving really was a very consuming part of my days, but.

Jackie: I think the Lord in that showed me every day is a gift, and that’s why we call it the present. [00:12:00] And my husband’s diagnosis certainly put us in that timeframe. I felt, oh, if I could do the research and, and discover what treatment options would be best if I could do such and such, if I could do this and that, if I could do that, and

Jackie: I remember the moment just thinking, you know, control is just an illusion. Yeah. And that real comfort doesn’t come from a life of no troubles. It comes from discovering the comforter who meets us in the middle of those troubles. And that’s where I found the Lord. Just, just so faithful little things that, I can say I’m so grateful that I was.

Jackie: Open to seeing God at work in my life and in my husband and my life together. We were married 40 years and in some ways those last seven and a half were some of the best because we really got it together. [00:13:00] And, I wish, you know, everyone could feel that way without going through a situation like I did.

Jackie: That’s the only way that God got my attention, I guess, and I don’t want to lose that. In fact, I’ll tear up a little here, but one of the most, moving moments was when he passed in my arms. And, I believe at that moment I was as close to the Lord as I have ever been. It was holding the hands of the man you love, as you know, the next hand he was going to hold was the Lord’s.

Jackie: And the words that God gave me to say during those moments, I could have never done on my own. And so from that moment, April 13th, 2012, whenever I feel, oh, overwhelmed or shaken, I guess shaken is a good word. Whenever I feel shaken, I will say, Lord, take me back to April 13th, 2012. I wanna feel as close to you now as I did then.

Jackie: I think if we look at those [00:14:00] moments in our lives, those pivotal moments that we can direct, that’s where I met The Lord, oh, I want that Lord every day, and society and our days and our schedules fill us. We don’t get to have those moments. We just get so consumed with getting this done or that done. But I would encourage people to find.

Jackie: The moment that, you know, I felt the close, maybe journaling this question, where did you find the Lord the closest? Where did he meet your need the most in your life? And just write those words down as you remember ’em even today. Yeah. To be able to say, I can go back in a journal entry and say, oh, I have sensed the presence of God.

Jackie: You know what I mean? What happened? I don’t sense it now. What happened? Well then you could just simply pause and say, I was so busy doing, even doing good things, but not everything is ours to do. You know, we’re not the only instrument that God uses [00:15:00] and um, that’s something in this season of life, um, I’m learning.

Jackie: Is so beautiful. That tender moment where your husband was in your arms and passed from this world to the next and the way that you described God’s presence is so tender. You said you were able to say words you had never said you couldn’t imagine yourself saying, what do you mean by that?

Jackie: You

Jackie: know,

Jackie: when you’re given this diagnosis that he had been given, we really knew every day could be the last day. I mean, in reality, yes, we all need to accept that fact. And it was halfway through his. Treatments. Our little granddaughter, she was about three and he was sitting in a chair and I was playing with her on the floor and she said, just so innocently, Mimi, what will you do in gampy dies?

Jackie: Oh my. And I paused. And the fixer in me, Kelly would have said, oh, Abby, [00:16:00] I’m gonna take such good care of G and you baby, nothing bad’s gonna happen. I love you. I know. I know that’s what fixers would say. Yeah. But boy, the Lord had shown me a follower of him and his word that I could honestly say to her and him listening to me, my husband listening to me.

Jackie: I will miss him terribly. I will talk about him every day, and I will choose to remember only the good things. And Abby, just so innocently said to me. Oh, that’s good. Oh, Kelly, my husband and I looked at each other with tears in our eyes and he said it would be that way for both of us because he knew I could pass before him.

Jackie: I mean, there’s no guarantees of any of us for the next breath, but realizing how God can direct, even the conversations I’d have with a 3-year-old, I knew to lean more into him and into his word, and by [00:17:00] no means did I do all of this. All perfectly. But there were moments when I knew grasping, saying, Lord, help me at this moment.

Jackie: Let him see the love of Jesus in my eyes and not the fatigue from being up all night, because that’s what I want. , I would encourage any caregiver, seek God’s strength. Because you’ll soon be depleted of your own. Yes. And that’s about the only way I can say caregiving can. Can, you can manage caregiving through his strength.

Jackie: But that, uh, evening we had known, we had some signs that it was coming to an end, his, his life here on earth. And, the music with the girls, the granddaughters and family had been and visited, and this is, so this is personal Kelly, but you know, we had in our bedroom, we have a queen size bed.

Jackie: And so at night we slept together. In the daytime, I had a hospital bed where he could look out on the farm, uh, in the daytime. So it was letting [00:18:00] him see this beautiful home that we had created. Oh, I love that. And so at, , on this particular day, he said, I think I’m just gonna stay here tonight in the hospital bed.

Jackie: So I said, okay, well scoot over. I’m gonna snuggle. I mean, so you can imagine in a hospital bed, we’re kind of, you know, those are not the most comfortable things. But imagine with me, we’re there and I wake up in the night to, use the bathroom and, and I stretch out on our bed and I’m thinking, oh, I’d be so relaxing to wait here.

Jackie: But something said, no, you need to snuggle again. I went back over and I said, I’m back. He said, I knew you’d be here. His breathing began to be labored and shortness of breath. Heart rate was slowing, and as I held him in my arms and my hand on his heart, I could say, babe, you are in the race of a lifetime.

Jackie: You were about to cross the finish line, and you’ll be greeted by [00:19:00] all of those who are before you, and you’ll turn around and I’ll be right behind you. I will think of you every day. You will be in a blossom. Every, every flower that blooms and I see one lone star in the sky and God has promised that it’ll be okay for you and it’ll be okay for me.

Jackie: And within moments he stopped breathing. And Kelly, we do not run. I mean, that image, in Hebrews I, I can think of passages. That might have given me , those words to say, but that is so true for every one of us, and it’s hard to let go. Sure. I sad and I’ve, I’ve been angry with God for taking the lives of people I’ve loved or not having lives turn out the way I thought they should, but he is simply saying, Jackie, give them to me.

Jackie: Your prayers are not to ask for A, B, and c. Your prayer should be, Lord, help [00:20:00] me live the life that you have purposed for me. So that they might see you glorified to whatever I say and do because the conviction comes from him. Not my job to, to save the world as a fixer. I thought it was my job to say just everyone I knew they well, I knew what they needed to do more than they did.

Jackie: Yeah. And oh boy, Kelly. That’s raw.

Kelly: Well, I wanted step into that story for just a minute. Just one of the things that stood out to me so beautifully is the way God orchestrated his last minutes on earth and even called you out bed to go be with him. And that last breath and, and it’s such. Such a reminder that God is outside of time and he is orchestrating all these events of our lives.

Kelly: Even Psalm 1 39 says, all our days were laid out for him in his book before we had lived one of them. It’s so powerful to remember that the story [00:21:00] that God is writing for our lives is so much bigger than the one that we can imagine. Even though there’s a lot of heartache along the way.

Kelly: And it’s not the story we would’ve written had we been in charge. No, no, no. But I think his story is so much more beautiful. Oh, I absolutely agree, Jackie. And another thing you said that I thought was so powerful and important is when you pray, Lord, help him see you in my eyes instead of my weariness and f atigue. And that makes me tear up because I’ve spent many years as a caregiver myself, and it was especially intense when my girls were going through treatment for chronic Lyme disease and they were so fatigued they could barely get outta bed. And it was up to me to get them to the places they needed to be.

Kelly: And it was up to me to make sure that they were well taken care of at times when. Their life seemed very fragile in that moment. And we weren’t sure what was gonna [00:22:00] happen. And that was a prayer that, gosh, I didn’t expect to get so choked up Jackie. But that was a prayer I would pray often because I knew that one of the trigger points for my oldest daughter was to feel like a burden,

Kelly: I just wanted her to feel loved. Yeah. Just to feel the love of Jesus wrapped around her.

Jackie: Right. And I think as a mother Kelly, we, we try to think it’s, we can do it all. And I, uh, believe that accepting help is not a sign of weakness. It is determining that I’ve got a, a stronger support system behind me. My husband was on hospice for 16 months in our home, and so having in-home health, in-home nursing.

Jackie: Was wonderful. , It was as if when his world became smaller, because it was hard mobility wise to do a lot out trying to bring it the world into him. Yeah. But I have to say, [00:23:00] Kelly, all of the people that I was primary caregiver for, whether it was my father, my mother, my husband, you know, my in-laws, I, they all have passed.

Jackie: They made it easy to care for them. And that is, I know that is the gift of God that made my caregiving much, much easier than many people who their loved one isn’t as sensitive to the support. They’re looking at your help as a detriment to them instead of helping them see this is, uh, someone walking alongside you on this journey.

Jackie: Yeah, and that was, that was important for me to see how to. Accept the help. And, uh, for the boys, you know, his treatment we had, I made sure that all three of them knew about the injections, the medications, his MRIs. We had everything on a CD that wherever we went, any medical team, we were able to pull up, right?

Jackie: What we needed, because we knew seven and a half years into this, this was [00:24:00] unheard of for glioblastoma. Most people die within the first year and a half. So back in 2004 with a diagnosis, it was really grim and, he did four plus years of aggressive treatment. Wow. And he, wanted to continue to help support and I know, as his days in weeks and months.

Jackie: Drew closer to the end, , he had said to the doctor, when the time I’d like to donate, an organ? And they said, well, we’ve given you so much in treatment wise. We couldn’t do any of that, but we certainly would love to do an autopsy on your brain because we do not know how your body has withstood with the assault we have put you under.

Jackie: And he said, you got it. And so he just signed right away. So, , part of it was still his teaching. He was always teaching the boys. He was a lifelong learner. In fact, his stone, he’s buried at a military cemetery here in Michigan, Fort Custard [00:25:00] and, it’s called the Renaissance Man because he was so well versed in so many things. But it’ll be the Renaissance man and his lady when I am buried there. So that’s, where we were and we still are, I guess.

Kelly: I love that. I’m wondering, one of the things you mentioned was that you learned to lean on the Lord’s presence. You learned to trust him rather than yourself. You also mentioned a time when you were angry with God.

Kelly: Would you mind talking to us about some of the ways you prayed and some you’ve already shared some of them, some of the ways you prayed that really helped you process and hang on to all that God was telling you.

Jackie: I think. Primarily a caregiver needs to take care of themselves. You cannot pour from an empty cup.

Jackie: And so for me to eat well, to exercise and, uh, be fed spiritually through bible studies and through church and my old private studies, but one of the [00:26:00] things that helped me, I believe in being able to find rest, even if it was for one or two hours, I. I will start saying the 23rd Psalm, and you know, is you’re laying there and you know that any moment they’re gonna be up again and something’s going to happen and you need to break a block somehow for sleep.

Jackie: And I would start quoting the 23rd Psalm and as my mind would gear off something else, like, another, like, you know, the medication, have I filled the pill bottle? No. Stop right back. The Lord is my shepherd, the Lord. And, and you deviate. I have to tell you, Kelly, I don’t know that I ever completed saying the 23rd Psalm because God provided maybe the fourth go around that then the Lord is my shepherd.

Jackie: I shall not want. I mean, and that was a wonderful way for me to be able to get the sleep and nourishment that I needed. So that was a habit that I recognized. That [00:27:00] helped me when I would get angry at God upset, I think I was directing that anger almost more to me than to him. I was so upset at myself or what I had allowed to happen.

Jackie: And rather than saying, well, Lord, why did you let this happen? It was, , what did I do to , , accentuate this situation or irritate it in some way so I could check myself. Quicker and, faster knowing that someone who is medically compromised in some way, that it isn’t them that’s berating to you as their caregiver.

Jackie: It’s the disease. If you can separate them from the disease than I was caring for my husband. The man, I loved the man with the beautiful head of curly hair. Oh. And the disease that would take so much of him, his surgery, he lost the left peripheral vision of both eyes. And so he couldn’t drive or work any of those [00:28:00] things.

Jackie: And in our early marriage, I’m sure you’ve heard the book by Gary Chapman the Five Love Languages? We discovered that his love language was service and mine was quality time. So for him to work six days a week, that was his love offerings providing for his family, where I’m just wanting you to sit by me and do nothing and just soak it in together.

Jackie: And once we learned to kind of talk each other’s language, our marriage went through some rough patches, really rough patches, but we were able to get it back together. But I discovered through my caregiving role after the diagnosis, I was no longer, I didn’t work at a job anymore. I left that position and he wasn’t working.

Jackie: And so our love languages flipped. Where I was the one providing service to him by helping him so much and his was the quality time together. So he would often say, [00:29:00] come sit by me. I’m trying to say ideas for your listeners to be open to the ways God speaks to us. Mm. So acknowledging that fact early in the diagnosis made it much easier for me to just wear.

Jackie: I would want to run around doing stuff. And really, he was just coveting someone to sit by him, and I knew what that language felt like and how, how to speak that language. So taking a blanket out on the hill on the back, having a little picnic and looking out at the farm. So we began to speak each other’s language then too.

Kelly: I love the way God changed your hearts. How your love languages even flipped because of the roles he called you into and how your love for each other just continued to increase even as y’all played different roles in his journey.

Kelly: Well, you’ve given us so much to hang onto, but I’m wondering if now we could transition into how in the world did the Lord bring pickleball into this journey? [00:30:00] How did he bring healing to your life? Through pickleball. It is the most creative, interesting, surprising pivot that the Lord allowed in your life.

Jackie: It is rather interesting. Kelly? I was introduced to pickleball simply as a way to get out of the house. And there I you know, fell in love with a sport and. I discovered I could laugh again. I had new community and connections again, and um, and I learned to live again. And I often will think of how pickleball is something that, God showed me on earth.

Jackie: As I listened to other people and their stories, I began to share some of my story and my grief walk. Mm-hmm. My role as a widow, caregiver, mother. Grown children, grandmother, every aspect of my life. And I could share my faith. And so I, I saw that God wasn’t, , I’ve said this before, somewhere, , he [00:31:00] wasn’t just healing me, he was preparing me.

Jackie: He was preparing me for this ministry, almost like a commission. I think I shared with you how I had gone to Israel. After the death of my mother. So I’ve had this tremendous losses in my life and, uh, I went to Israel and you know, the passage in Mark where we hear of Christ encountering the demon possessed man.

Jackie: And after the miraculous healing, the man wants to go with Jesus, he begs to go with Christ. But Jesus said to him, and I heard it at. Almost for the first time right there, go home and tell others what I’ve done for you. Mm-hmm. And that became the moment that I can say definitely from the pain to the purpose, that was the pivotal moment.

Jackie: I think you’ve used the word pivot in our, some of our conversations and, and that moment being open to knowing that, oh, you just [00:32:00] take a beat and we all can look in our lives where God has so faithfully carried us. Pushed us, held us back by his grace to do what we’re to do today for him. ’cause we were all born with a purpose.

Jackie: And, mine is to tell others what God has done for me. So faithful. And I think that’s where, I shared with you. It was in Philippians 2 as passage. I thought, oh, this is, I’ve read this, how many times can I read it for your audience? Yes, please. This was something I, and I, I know I’ve read this before, but it’s Philippians two 13, for God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Jackie: There you go. Little Miss Independent learns through her codependent role that really it is to be God dependent because he will give me the desires, he will give me the strength. To do his will, his perfect will in my life. And that’s simply to live for [00:33:00] him to be the light in a darkened world and on a pickleball court.

Jackie: That has been a wonderful place to share my faith and led me into writing not only that first children’s pickleball book that you mentioned, but my latest book, pickleball Parables, inspiration on and off the court, and, I think if anything, that book and dedicating it, it would be to say, I want every reader or everyone to just realize, look and see God walking in every aspect of your life, whether you’re on or off a pickleball court.

Jackie: I thought it was really,

Kelly: surprising how you were able to connect different aspects of the game and parallel it with different aspects of your faith. In the beginning you were like, Lord, really, are there really faithful lessons in pickleball? I’m not sure. How are you gonna do this? He did it so beautifully and each one is just a short devotion and a focus on one aspect of the walk of faith, [00:34:00] but it parallels a part of what you do when you play pickleball.

Jackie: Thank you for noticing that. That was good. The table of contents is called Your Game Plan. I tried to keep a sports theme throughout the book, but yeah, it is, it’s, it’s wonderful to see how God has taken something that’s so popular pickleball and allowed me to.

Jackie: Just couch it with my faith and you see other people saying, wow, I, I don’t play pickleball, but. I see God at work in this aspect of my life. And uh, that’s, that’s all I wanna be able to do, is people to see God is at work in your life if you just kind of pay attention.

Kelly: Amen. God is actively moving in every area of life, pouring out his goodness and his love constantly.

Kelly: Even when we can’t see it. And you mentioned that thought that even when life shakes us, we can rest in the arms of the one who is never shaken. And that’s what you have learned on this journey. Well, Jackie, why don’t you tell us how people can get [00:35:00] in touch with you? Are [email protected]? I am, and I’m on Facebook and Instagram, Jackie Freeman author.

Kelly: I’d love to hear from your listeners and, all of the books that I’d written have been available, are available on Amazon. I’d love to, speak more about this topic with ever given the opportunity. You’ve been very gracious and inviting me, Kelly, to speak on your podcast. And, I just pray that God blesses you and your family and your ministry going forward because.

Kelly: You are such a bubbly person that you make even discussing hard topics, easy and I love that. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much, Jackie. God bless you. God bless you.

If you were encouraged in your faith today, it’d be great if you’d help get the word out by subscribing, sharing with a friend, or leaving a review. I’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, kelly hall.org and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the [00:36:00] Unshakeable Hope podcast.