Podcast

Hope in the Hidden Places of Trauma and Caregiving: Dyann Shepherd Ep117
[00:00:00]
Dyann: I think when you’ve been through a lot of trauma, you learn that you can fight it or you can surrender to it.
Dyann: And I wanted to surrender to whatever God had. I began to pray, I don’t know how long this is going to go on, because sometimes it’s 20 years, but please help me to help him feel safe and comfortable and loved.” And honestly, I don’t know that I would’ve been able to pray those prayers had I not already been through so much.
Welcome to the Unshakable Hope podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions, such as how do I trust God’s heart when his ways and delays are breaking mine? We’ll hear from people just like you and me who have experienced God’s faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected.
My prayer is that God would renew our hope in his word and his love through these [00:01:00] conversations.
Hey, friends. The story I’m sharing today reminds us that we can expect the Lord to meet us in our deepest needs and in our daily needs. The Lord truly is near, and all the unsearchable riches of Christ really are accessible to us every moment of every day.
Listen to just a few of the promises from God outlined in the Bible. He gives strength in our weakness, comfort in our brokenness, wisdom in our confusion, tangible help in ways we couldn’t have imagined, and peace in times of trouble. We’ll see God providing all these things in my guest story, not in flashy ways, but we’ll see God’s power show up in hidden choices, in God-inspired prayers.
I met my guest, Diane Shepherd, several years ago [00:02:00] at a conference, and as I got to know her, I was impacted by her steadfast commitment to follow and serve Jesus through every season of her life. Even though her childhood was chaotic and her first husband was sadly unfaithful, she discovered she could count on the faithfulness of God.
Later, she married a dear man named Rick. They were married for 31 years before he passed away from Alzheimer’s. What you’ll hear from Diane are her choices to hold onto the Lord, to surrender control and trust Him through some of the hardest times of her life. Diane often says that the Lord helped her live unsinkable when circumstances were unthinkable, and her story certainly highlights the truth that God is an ever-present help in trouble.
Diane is an author, speaker, and mentor. She was on staff with Cru, and served as a Stephen’s [00:03:00] minister. She’s also a retired CPA.
Kelly: well, Diane, I’m so glad you’re here.
Dyann: Thank you so much, Kelly. It’s really a joy to be here with you.
Kelly: Absolutely. We’ve tried to make it work for a long time
Kelly: well, we know you love God’s word, and you’ve been applying it and sharing what you’ve learned for many, many years, decades really.
Kelly: You have walked through many challenges and, even as a child been in some challenging circumstances. So Can you give us an overview of your story and part of your faith journey?
Dyann: Sure. Well, I grew up in a home where my parents believed in God, but we weren’t a Christian home.
Dyann: We didn’t read the Bible. We didn’t really go to church much. But somewhere, and I don’t know when or how, I got ahold of a Bible. And from about 10 on, I would read a chapter every night. I didn’t understand it- Wow … but I read it. Wow. And then Occasionally we would go to church, and it was a very unusual church.
Dyann: Let me just put it that way. Not your typical- Yeah … Christian church. And I just [00:04:00] remember sitting there one day when I was 13 and- And I thought, “This is not the truth.” I didn’t know what the truth was- Wow.
Kelly: Wow …
Dyann: but I knew it wasn’t the truth. And I told my parents, “I don’t ever wanna go back to that church.”
Dyann: And then about three years later, I went to a Christian camp and I received Jesus as my savior. And I think the power of that, for me, is God’s word does not return void. You don’t have to understand it for it to minister to you and teach you truth, or at least give you the discernment that something you’re hearing isn’t the truth.
Kelly: Wow.
Dyann: So I really, really feel this was part of my journey, both my grandmothers loved the Lord. I didn’t see them very often throughout my life, but I know they were praying. And I really think all of this was a result of their prayers. So, becoming a believer at a little before 16 made all the [00:05:00] difference because my mother had a lot of mental health issues, and she was an alcoholic, and it just was a very chaotic home.
Dyann: But knowing the Lord gave me stability and gave me a focus. So it was a … I’m just grateful. I’m so very grateful that I became a believer at a young age.
Kelly: That’s so powerful, Diane. I love that even though you were reading the Bible and not understanding it, God was still working in your heart and causing your spirit to be sensitive to what was true and what was not true.
Kelly: That’s a powerful realization. I love that about God.
Dyann: Well, I think it’s a reminder that God’s word doesn’t return void.
Dyann: Yeah. Powerful.
Kelly: Well, early on, the people in your life didn’t really prove faithful or dependable or reliable, but you learned that God was all those things.
Kelly: Mm-hmm. You learned he was faithful, and you said even though there were some times in your life when [00:06:00] you felt like you were either gonna cave in and fall apart or you had to get strong, those were places where God met you- . and strengthened you. And so I would love for you to just share a little bit about that.
Dyann: Sure. Well, I think, when you come from a chaotic home, one of the things that people tend to do is they go one of two ways. They either try to control everything, or they go off the deep end. So I had brothers that went off the deep end into drugs and things like that, but I thought, “Well, I’ll just be a good girl, and I’ll do everything right, and then my life will be just fine.”
Dyann: And so I worked very hard at getting good grades and never getting in trouble and staying close to the Lord, and I went on staff with Crusades. I was trying to control my life. But we can’t always control what happens to us, and eventually I ended up getting married to a a really strong Christian man who had led most of our friends [00:07:00] to the Lord, but he had an addiction.
Dyann: Mm. He had a sexual addiction. And so eventually that all came out, and, he had AIDS, or at that time they called it AIDS. And at that point I had to make some really intentional decisions, and I was … I remembered a Bible teacher telling us some days there are things in your life- Where you have to either cling to Jesus for your life, for your dear life, or completely fall apart.
Dyann: So I remembered that and I thought, “Lord, this is where the rubber meets the road. Either you are true or you’re not.”
Either you’re faithful or you’re not.” And so I made a very intentional decision that every day I would pray, I would take a walk. And, and I had scriptures like Psalm 27, “I would have despaired had I not believed in the goodness of the Lord and the land of the living.
Dyann: [00:08:00] Take courage. Wait for the Lord.” And I, I just held on to that verse. And then I held on to, I used to sing Turn Your Eyes upon Jesus, look full in his wonderful face, and the things of Earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace. And so those two became kind of my mantras, for lack of a better word.
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Dyann: That I just hung on to and just said, “Lord, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. I don’t… I’ve got two small children. I don’t know if this marriage can possibly survive.” And sadly, after a couple of years during this process, it did not survive. And so I had to start a whole new journey. But I was, I saw God’s faithfulness, and I just kept fixing my eyes on Jesus, and those were things that I had learned in the past but not ever had to apply because I was in control.
Kelly: Mm-hmm.
Dyann: And I was [00:09:00] controlling my life by, you know, being good and by doing the right thing, and all those things are good things, but things happen to all of us. And we don’t get to make some of those decisions about what happens to us based on other people, sometimes just life. So it became a time of really clinging to the Lord.
Dyann: And I’m… I think each time we do that, we build this foundation. The core of our spirit gets stronger. It’s like,, the rings of a tree. You know, they get stronger as they move outward. And, that’s, that was definitely that time of life for me.
Dyann: And it prepared me for many other things.
Kelly: Well, Diane, those two things you mentioned, that song and that scripture, those are such precious places for me to camp out, and have been favorites of mine as well.
Kelly: So I, I’m so glad you shared it.
Kelly: After all of that transpired, [00:10:00] you ended up in a wonderful marriage to your husband, and he has since passed away recently, very recently, and I’m so sorry- Yes
Kelly: for that. But you cared for him in, in the last years of his life. But tell us about that portion of your story and how the Lord met you there.
Dyann: Yes. Well, I never expected to get married again. In fact, a counselor had told me it was unlikely because I was over 40, .. and had two children.
Dyann: So, but the Lord did bring a wonderful man into my life, Rick, and we were married for 31 years. And he was he was shy and quiet and very analytical. High-level chess player, high-level bridge player. But he had, after probably 20 years, maybe about 20 years into our marriage, it became clear that he was starting to perhaps have dementia.
Dyann: And his mother had, had Alzheimer’s, [00:11:00] so I was prepared in some degree for it. I kind of thought it might happen. But because he was doing all these things that they tell you to do, exercise, eat well, brain games, I thought, “Well, we’ll, we’ll get at least to 90, maybe 85 or 90.” But it didn’t work out that way, and as I began to see him repeat questions and just these little things that people wouldn’t maybe notice, God put it on my heart, and I’m so grateful, that he put it on my heart to pray that I would answer those questions as if I had never heard them before.
Kelly: Hmm. And
Dyann: that took a lot of practice because I think we always want to correct people when they say the wrong thing or they ask again. But that was very helpful to me, to get that kind of solidified in my mind- And then as time went on and I saw the decline [00:12:00] increase, and again, most people didn’t know it was because I was living with it.
Dyann: Then I began to pray, “Lord, I don’t know how long this is going to go on, because sometimes it’s 20 years, but please help me to help him feel safe and comfortable and loved.” And honestly, I don’t know that I would’ve been able to pray those prayers had I not already been through so much. I think when you’ve been through a lot of trauma, you learn that you can fight it or you can surrender to it.
Dyann: And I wanted to surrender to whatever God had. And I, that can sound a little Pollyanna, and I don’t mean it that way. It’s not an easy journey. Alzheimer’s is a very unpredictable journey. It’s, you’re constantly recalibrating. You’re constantly saying, “Oh, maybe it’s not as bad as I thought it was,” because they have these great days [00:13:00] where everything seems normal, and then suddenly everything is not normal.
Dyann: So we kind of went along that way really for probably a solid 10 years. And then in December of ’23, he just fell off a cliff he woke up one morning and just said, “My brain doesn’t work.”
Kelly: I’m sure that just broke your heart.
Dyann: Oh, it, it did break my heart. And within two weeks he couldn’t drive, he couldn’t work out at the gym, he couldn’t play bridge. And the worst part was he was terrified. Just terrified. He was trying so hard to get it back and he couldn’t. And the thing about dementia and Alzheimer’s is you are literally watching your loved one’s brain be erased, and it’s like bits and pieces and then suddenly this was like a [00:14:00] 8.0 earthquake.
Dyann: It just, it just sort of blew up and he was never the same. He couldn’t remember. He couldn’t use his phone. He didn’t know the difference between his wallet and his phone. And the fact that I had made that decision months before, really probably two years before, “Lord, help me keep him feeling safe and loved.”
Dyann: And I’m so grateful. , It still makes me really, emotional because watching someone lose their abilities and they know it and they can’t get it back is just heartbreaking.
Kelly: Right.
Dyann: So, I’m very grateful. I mean, he literally passed away eight months after that day. I’m glad for him, his sake it didn’t go on any longer.
Kelly: Well, Diane, I just appreciate you so much sharing that vulnerable part of your story and I love the way the Lord led you to pray a specific way so that you [00:15:00] could prepare your heart and you could love him with the love of Jesus in the most profound ways.
Kelly: That, that’s really touching, and it helps remind us to pay attention to the prayers God puts on our mind because there’s something he wants to do, and he wants to invite us in to what he’s doing, what he’s already doing, and it makes us aware of it when we, you know, we just say yes to these particular prayers.
Kelly: But I’m wondering if as you were just wrestling with the Lord, When you felt weary, like, how did you pray about those times when you just felt weary and worn out and didn’t know how much longer you could do this?
Dyann: That’s a great question because I did feel weary. I was exhausted.
Dyann: One of the things when you’re caring for someone who can’t communicate very well anymore, you get so exhausted and you’re often up, off and on throughout the night. And there were days where I just thought, “Lord, how am I gonna do this?” And I remember praying, ” I [00:16:00] don’t know what to do. Show me the way. Just show me the way.”
Dyann: And it wasn’t audible, but it was so clear, “I am the way, Diane. Keep your eyes on me.” And that just became my, my focal point. I. one of the things I recommend to the women, I, I have a support group for caregivers and I tell them, ” Take a mini pity every once in a while.” And what that is is I would, I would say, “I need…”
Dyann: In my mind, I would think, “I need a mini pity right now.” And I would go in the guest room, get on my knees and just cry. I didn’t want my husband to see me crying, but I would just go and I would pour out my heart and I would have a time to feel sorry for myself and let God know how tired I was and how much I wanted to do this well, but I was scared.
Dyann: And I, I didn’t know if I was doing it well. I didn’t know if I [00:17:00] was doing the right thing. And so it just kept bringing me back to, “God, show me the way.” And I made mistakes. I wasn’t, I wasn’t always a nice person at 3:00 in the morning to be honest. I mean, you know, when you’re tired, you do and say things you regret.
Dyann: And I certainly did. But I think overall he knew. And the other thing that, that happened where the Lord was so gracious is my husband, when I would ask him to do things or try to help him, he would say, “No, I can’t. I can’t.” And I- I, one day I cried out to the Lord again and I said, “Lord, if I hear those two words again, I am going to scream.”
Dyann: And I think the Lord must have been giggling and He said, “You’re not listening to every other thing he’s saying, Diane. Pay attention to the other things he’s saying.” [00:18:00] And when I did, I heard, “I love you. You look beautiful today. I just wanna protect you. I wanna help you.” And so I was so focused on I can’t that I was missing these other tender words that my husband, who had so few words, was saying to me
Kelly: Oh my goodness.
Kelly: That is beautiful. One of my favorite things to do on this podcast is to talk about the ways, the ways we pray in those places where we don’t feel like we’re enough and we feel overwhelmed, and then how God meets us in those places. Because His Word and the way He meets us is always so personal, so deeply practical and powerful, and you experience Him in that place.
Kelly: And I love how the Lord spoke into your heart in that need and opened your mind to [00:19:00] all these other beautiful things He was saying. Oh, wow. That is very, very touching. I think that you’ve really helped us understand, you know, for many of us, whatever situations we’re in, some of the greatest challenges in our journey are when the, when we’re just pushed to the end of ourselves, when our, when we become impatient, we have no energy, we’re absolutely weary, we’re poured out, and we feel like nothing is being poured in to revitalize or restore.
Kelly: But what you did is you got on your knees and you poured out your heart to the Lord in those places. That’s very instructive for us. And then the Lord w- showed up. He was faithful. He spoke into your deepest needs, and He gave you exactly what you needed to hear and feel and experience. That’s beautiful.
Dyann: The other thing I did that I felt was really helpful, I kept two journals during this time. One was a journal of strictly lament, just pouring out my heart in writing to what I was [00:20:00] going through, what I was seeing my husband go through. And then I kept another journal that was strictly thank you, Lord, for.
Dyann: No prayer, just thank you for the call that I got today. Thank you for the visit. Thank you for the meal. Thank you for the tender word of my husband today. Thank you for his excitement when he saw me come home. Just that’s all it was. And that was very powerful for me because when we’re in a hard place, it’s easy to fixate on the hard place.
Dyann: And that’s not to minimize it. It’s hard. You know, whether it’s cancer or a, a tr- troubled child or whatever it is in our life that’s hard, we can focus on that. But we miss sometimes that in that hard place, there are flowers [00:21:00] springing up. There’s g- a garden that we can totally miss because we’re not letting our eyes be open to what God is doing beyond that.
Kelly: Mm-hmm.
Dyann: And that I’m very thankful to be able to look back now and see on the same day my lament and my gratefulness
Kelly: I really love that. I’ve never heard, I’ve never had anyone share that before, that they kept two journals specifically for those, that purpose at exactly the same time. I’m not organized enough to do something like that, but I’m sure some of our listeners will enjoy that suggestion.
Kelly: And so to me,, those are stories of God’s love and faithfulness that are just embedded in every day of that journey. I, I know you learned daily to go to the Lord in prayer and in His word, and that’s what you’re sharing with us. I love all the stories of how God practically met you and personally met you.
Kelly: I also know that you’ve [00:22:00] talked a lot about spiritual fracking along the way, and I think that’s a faith lesson you’ve learned. Just talk to us about that.
Dyann: Sure. Well, I think we can learn a lesson and think, “Oh, we’ve got this nailed,”
Dyann: and I had done a study with my Bible study on Proverbs, and I said, “I want to write down every single word on the tongue. Let’s just write a list of every word in Proverbs, every verse.” So we did that. And when it was over, I made a little booklet for my Bible study of, of all the verses that had to do with the tongue.
Dyann: Also, the tongue that we say with our eyes or our heavy sigh, you know, because we communicate a lot that way. So I felt like, “Wow, I’ve really learned this lesson to keep my tongue under control.” Well, not so much. So I ended up being at this meeting where I said something very rude to the [00:23:00] speaker.
Kelly: Diane, I cannot imagine you saying something very rude to a speaker, but go ahead. Tell us this story.
Dyann: So this, this speaker was talking on fracking. And if you remember, fracking was the big deal about 10 years ago. And it, it’s where there’s hard oil shale in the ground.
Dyann: And so the hot pressure of water and air breaks up the shale, and sends it up into the surface. So this speaker I thought would be giving both sides of the issue, but she only gave one, and that really irritated me. And she was reading from her notes very, very monotone voice. And as she was speaking, my insides just got tighter and tighter and tighter.
Dyann: , I’m so embarrassed to say this, but I’m just gonna say it. I raised my hand during the question time, and I felt she was very dismissive with people when they [00:24:00] challenged her thinking. And I said, ” I wish you would give us as much respect as we’re giving you.” The minute it came out of my mouth, I thought, “What have I done?”
Dyann: I was horrified. Well, that just started a whole process. When I got home, I said to my husband, “How could I have done that? What was I thinking?” And he was in shock. He’d never seen me do anything like that. Well, over the next course of a couple months, I was so ashamed and mortified. And I called the lady who had put on the conference and I apologized.
Dyann: I said, ” I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to embarrass you.” And she s- she gave me a total pass. She said, “Oh, she was, , boring. Don’t worry about it.” So I kind of took the pass and I said, “Oh, good. All right. Everything’s fine.” Well, God, it was not fine. He was not finished with me. And what He did over the next really couple of [00:25:00] months, and really a couple of years, is He showed me why I was so angry.
Dyann: And it was because of some things in my past, a, a very significant person in my life who always cut me off and other people off if we didn’t agree with them. And there was only one way to think, and it was their way, and everyone else was irrelevant or stupid or whatever. And I realized that this place in my heart had been so hard, like oil shale.
Dyann: I had no idea. It was from my childhood. And here I was, probably late 60s, maybe my early 70s, and God was fracking my heart and breaking up all those hard places and spewing up for healing this spot in my heart [00:26:00] that had never healed.
Kelly: Diane, I just have to say that is so, so surprising when we’re older and God reveals these childhood wounds that have been there all our life.
Kelly: Mm-hmm. But yet He so graciously, at just the right time- … heals those places. He meets us. Yeah. He uncovers. And I love it when He uncovers something. He- it’s always a promise that, “Hey, that’s what I’m gonna heal right now. Pay, pay attention.” Mm-hmm. And that’s what He did for you. That’s just so, so tender, so precious.
Kelly: I, I love that.
Dyann: Yeah. What was really great is He wouldn’t let me off the hook either. And so I finally tracked down the speaker, and she wasn’t a believer. And I thought, “I have to apologize to her. I have to ask for her forgiveness.” So I tracked her down. I emailed her. I didn’t tell her why. I just said, “I’d love to meet with you.”
Dyann: And the whole time I was driving to meet with her, I was saying, “Lord, [00:27:00] what do I say? How do I approach this?” And He said, “Just listen. Get to know her.” So for the first 15 minutes, I just asked her about her life, about how she got involved in the fracking story, and she told me. And then I said, “I was at that meeting, and I want to apologize.
Dyann: I am so sorry for hurting you and for being rude, and I need to ask for your forgiveness.” And this is so powerful. Her eyes filled up with tears, and she told me she had cried all the way home. And I said, “I am so sorry for the pain that I caused you that night.” And it was such a powerful lesson because she said, “I had never spoken before in front of a group.”
Dyann: And that never occurred to me. It never occurred to me that she was nervous and trying to do her best job, like we all do. So [00:28:00] anyway, she was so gracious. We ended up talking more about our families and We spent about an hour together, and then inside I was thinking, “Oh, Lord, I wanna hug her so badly.”
Dyann: And as we were nearing the end, she said, “We have to hug.” And so we got up and we just hugged each other for the longest time, and it was so sweet. And I feel that fracking moment opened up my heart in a way that I’ve never been the same. Never. It took away my need to try to always be perfect and to be always…
Dyann: I always wanna do the right thing, but I think I was afraid to ask for forgiveness before when I didn’t do the right thing. And now I, I can’t wait to ask for forgiveness. I don’t wanna build up- Any spiritual cholesterol or hardness or plaque in my [00:29:00] heart. And that’s what happens when we’re not transparent, when we’re not soft in our heart.
Kelly: Yeah. One thing I do wanna mention is that you were teachable, though. The way you responded to the Lord, the way you kept yourself humble even though you didn’t want to. You know, he just kept saying, “You need to do something about this. You need to do something about this.” Even though it was a wrestling, you did surrender to the Lord’s guidance, and that is a sign of being teachable and humble.
Kelly: I love how the Lord used it and the way he healed her hurting heart in those moments goes far deeper than we can even imagine. And eventually, he will probably use that to bring her to faith in Jesus, I like to think.
Dyann: I hope so, because I told her very clearly that it was, God breaking up the hardness of my heart, and that it was through working it through with my Bible study as [00:30:00] to why I would do something so rude.
Dyann: So she knew it was God working in me, and we laughed about God fracking my heart. She thought that was so funny.
Kelly: Well, Diane, as we close, is there anything else you wanna share to someone who feels like they’re sinking in their circumstances?
Kelly: How can they just find strength and help in the Lord as you have?
Dyann: I think one of the most important things is to realize that whatever you’re going through, it’s not forever. It’s temporary and you have a choice each time you go through a hard time to either cling to the Lord or to cave. But every time you choose to get stronger with the Lord and to surrender to the circumstance you get stronger and you’re more prepared for the next time.
Dyann: It’s like if you’re in a riptide and you fight against the [00:31:00] riptide, you will drown. But if you don’t fight the riptide and you swim parallel to the, the shore, you will end up safe. Maybe not in the place you thought, but safe. So I just try to encourage women, don’t feel like this is forever. Keep your eyes focused on Jesus and he will set your path straight.
Dyann: That’s his promise. He’s not gonna leave you. You’re not alone.
Kelly: Yeah. Beautiful. Well, Diane,
Kelly: I just want to step back into your story with your husband. There were two things that happened right at the end that I think were pretty impactful that might bless us in our challenging circumstances, whether we’re a caregiver or not. I just know it challenged me.
Kelly: So would you share that with us?
Dyann: Yeah. So there were two things. The first I’ll start with is that he often would say, “I just want to take care of you.” And of course, he couldn’t. [00:32:00] He was not able to. But the n- the day that they told me he only had 24 hours, I laid by him the whole day, and I was trying to reassure him that it was okay, he could go, that I was going to be all right, and he just hang, kept hanging on all through the night.
Dyann: I, I would think, “Oh, he’s, he’s going now. His, he’s not breathing,” and then he would start again. And then around 8:30 in the morning, he got what they call the death whi- whistle I think they call it, uh, where they make a particular kind of sound, and I knew then it was imminent. And I texted my best friend, and I said, “It’s very close now.
Dyann: Please pray.” And I had my eyes closed and I was just laying next to him, and I opened up my eyes and my best friend was on the other side of him. She had come. I never heard her walk in the door or in the house, [00:33:00] and she was sitting holding his other hand. And she said, “Diane, tell him one more time that it’s okay for him to go.”
Dyann: And I said, ” I’ve been telling him all night.” And she said, “Tell him one more time.” So I told him one more time, “Honey, it’s okay.” He took a breath and was gone. And I felt like that was his last way of taking care of me. He didn’t want me to be alone. And that I will never forget that, that sense of his final act was making sure that I was not alone when he left me.
Dyann: So that was very powerful. But the other thing was I kept, while he was ill, I kept wanting him to have one of those Jesus moments where he said, “I saw Jesus.” And, and he never had one. But, but one day he came to me and he, it was one of the few times he got out of bed, and he walked over to my chair, because I would sit with him just so he’d know I was in the room where he could see [00:34:00] me.
Dyann: And he took my hand and he said, “I just want you to know I’m dying and I’m going to heaven.” And I said, “I know, honey, but not today. Not today.”
Kelly: Oh. Wow, that’s just so sweet. Mm-hmm. Thank you for sharing these stories with us. Thank you for sharing a small, portion of your life and your faith with us today.
Kelly: I just wanna encourage our listeners, if you wanna hear a little bit more about Dyann or read her parables, her modern-day parables, go to her website. Dianeshepherd.com and personalparables.com.
Dyann: But my name is spelled D-Y-A-N-N, so most people don’t think to spell it that way.
Kelly: Right. I will for sure put the links in the show notes . I’m just so thankful for the time we got to spend together.
Kelly: Thank you, Dyann.
Dyann: Thank you. Been a pleasure.
If you were encouraged in your faith today, it’d be great if you’d help get the word out by subscribing, sharing [00:35:00] with a friend, or leaving a review. I’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, kellyhall.org, and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the Unshakable Hope podcast.