Podcast

Singing Through Fires of Suffering: Lara Silverman E113
Lara: [00:00:00] Matt is dying of cancer. I am bedridden. Is this a Florence Nightingale complex? And long story short, even amidst all the confusion, the Lord very clearly.
Lara: Spoke to me . But the Lord told me, take this joy in your grief.
Lara: And we dated for six months and then we planned a wedding for six months and then we got married and Matt went to Glory exactly one year after our wedding. And you can imagine our whole church was praying for miracles.
Lara: And that one year of Ministry of Marriage, our ministry to our church was, can you show people that you can have joy in grief, that you can rejoice because this is the day that the Lord has made.
Lara: Can you trust me?
Welcome to the Unshakable Hope podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions such as, how do I trust God’s heart when his ways and delays are breaking mind? We’ll hear from people just like you and me who have experienced God’s [00:01:00] faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected my prayers, that God would renew our hope and his word and his love through these conversations.
Hey guys. My guest today has a story that resonates so deeply with my heart, and it speaks to those hard faith questions that rise up inside us when we are walking through a story that simply doesn’t make sense. She graduated top of her class from Stanford Law and had a successful career at a well-known law firm in California.
She had just landed her dream job, but then lost it all through a serious, confusing, undiagnosed illness that has kept her bedridden for years. She’s wrestled with the Lord often sounding like a prosecutor in her deep places of losses and discovered something that surprised her.
Through Christ, she could experience profound joy while walking through profound grief. My guest is Laura Silverman. [00:02:00] We’ll be drawing from her bestselling Christian memoir Singing Through Fire. We’re just taking a glimpse into a part of her story. She takes the reader in this book on an eight year journey where she experienced profound losses, as I’ve mentioned, but also the devastating loss of her husband and best friend after only a year of marriage. Her story, their story displays God’s amazing grace and purposes for suffering in ways.
Although confusing, draw us into God’s redemptive heart of love. Lars personality is incredibly vibrant. It comes out in her book, which I just loved, could barely put it down even as she remains mostly bedridden today, she’s learned to anchor her unwavering hope. In eternity besides being a bestselling Christian author, she’s also a jazz singer, comedian, and host of the Singing Through Fire podcast.
She [00:03:00] co-founded the Silverman Show, which is a multifaceted comedy show and theology show. I love how God’s truth and love radiate through the personality that God has built into this dear woman. And I pray that God would bless you through this conversation.
Kelly: Laura, I’m so glad you’re here.
Lara: Oh, Kelly, thank you so much for having me. I just have to say this for the audience, so I. Cannot tell you, first of all how much of an honor it is that I’m even a guest on this, because somehow, like a couple months ago, the Lord led me to your podcast. I don’t remember how, but I remember I was in such a state of just, you know, one of those moments where I clearly needed to surrender again, and he led me to your podcast.
Lara: And the minute I started watching the first video. I was hooked, and then I went on to the next guest, and then the next guest. You know when you YouTube binge videos? Yeah. And it was just like a balm to my soul. Every guest, every question, I just, I can’t thank you enough for your ministry because I feel like I’ve [00:04:00] consumed like maybe 50 of your videos.
Lara: I don’t know how many you have up, but I was, it was like one night. From 1:00 AM to 4:00 AM I was just in tears and it was so encouraging. So thank you so much. And now I can’t believe you have me on. I mean, the minute I saw it I was like, I would love to share my story too, Lord. you know, like putting my hand up.
Lara: And so here we are. So thank you so much.
Kelly: Oh, and that just blessed my soul so much when we met. You just reached out after all that.
Lara: Yeah, I emailed you. ’cause I’m a ridiculously, you know, more of a go-getter than I should be,
Kelly: I love being connected with you in that way. And I never even advertise my YouTube channel, so it’s fun when someone actually finds it, that was the Lord. Well, Laura, I just have to say your book has blessed me so much, and truly, I can’t wait to share it with my listeners, with my friends, with everyone.
Kelly: You are still faithfully following the Lord because he has rescued you in places of deep despair and weariness. So why don’t you just start with. Earlier in your life, you had your whole life planned out, I think from the time you were like 10. And then [00:05:00] at one point it all fell apart and it was suddenly, but yet it was also in slow motion because you didn’t realize that your dreams to practice law were being hijacked.
Kelly: I just want you to share that part of your story with us.
Lara: Thanks, Kelly. So basically, I grew up in a Christian home. I, you know, Armenian evangelical church, small Armenian community, strong Christian parents, and I always wanted to be a lawyer. I was always very outgoing, extroverted, I loved.
Lara: Musical theater and performing and really I was that annoying type a kid who was like, I’m gonna chase my dreams. And, why not, kids should chase their dreams and, you know, our ma our modern culture really, encourages us to, strive after what you want and I was.
Lara: A great student. , And long story short, I went to Stanford Law School and I, I always wanted to be a federal prosecutor. It was what I felt like the Lord was calling me to, I had worked in the Department of Justice, in law school and just all these experiences that I felt the Lord was prepping me for.
Lara: And five years into [00:06:00] my law practice, I was, I had just turned 30. So I had worked at a big law firm for three years, worked for two federal judges for two years. I was perfectly primed. I mean, to get this. Quote, unquote prestigious position at the US Attorney’s office. And I say that not to toot my own horn, but just to show you how hard I had worked, busting my butt, really idolizing my career, if you will, to get this position at the US Attorney’s office.
Lara: So I had just turned 30. I had prayed, Lord, please don’t open this door if it’s not your will. And he opened it. And my former bosses recommended me. This is like a big deal to have federal judges recommend you. I walk in, I’m one of three new hires, and on the second week of the job I fell mysteriously ill with this very rare neurological illness.
Lara: And you have to understand, this is the 30-year-old Laura who was very prideful, very, idolatrous of her career and very. Lord, what’s happening? I’ve been healthy as a horse for the first 30 years of my life. [00:07:00] What are you doing? The US Attorney’s Office. Long story short, gives me a 10 month leave.
Lara: Go figure this out. I tried treatment after treatment. They threw a million diagnoses at me. Nothing worked. We didn’t even know what we’re quite dealing with because none of the treatments were working. Long story short, after 10 months, I was not only dizzy and I’ll explain my diagnosis, but I was strictly bedridden and I had to resign.
Lara: And I will tell you, so 10 months in, I’ve lost the career. I’m like, okay, I don’t know why I’m so. Incredibly sick, Lord. Where did this come from? My whole family’s kind of in shock. ’cause I was always the one that, all right, nothing’s gonna get us down. The Lord will heal. You know, the Lord always comes through for Laura.
Lara: You know, it’s like, you know, sort of quasi prosperity gospel ish, even if, I didn’t really believe that because, you know, my aunt had died of cancer at age 55 earlier, and that was my only brush with suffering, if you will. But I knew from that experience 10 years prior that. Okay, wait, can this God [00:08:00] really be trusted?
Lara: And so that’s what kicked off my journey.
Lara: Hmm. Wow. And the story is so much more detailed than that. So thank you for that overview. I know it was like so much confusion, so many misdiagnoses, so many doctors that didn’t get it, and so much time where you’re wondering, am I ever gonna be out of this bed or is this my life?
Lara: So, tell us what you discovered along the way, medically speaking.
Lara: Absolutely. So my diagnosis, stems from the connection between my ears and my brain, such that I can’t tell where I am in space at any given point.
Lara: So right now you can’t tell, but the whole world is turning around me. You can’t tell, but I kind of slightly sway sometimes people in the audience can tell, but basically I’m still bedridden. It’s been eight years of this illness. I’m still bedridden about 60 to 70% of the day at this point.
Lara: But I force myself to sit up and the minute I sit up, the world starts spinning harder because my ears, there’s something wrong. I mean, I could get into the details, you could go read my memoir, but [00:09:00] basically it’s a neurological illness and we still don’t have a diagnosis, by the way. I mean, they gave me a million diagnoses.
Lara: We were begging the Lord, to get back to it. The first three years of that illness on the bed, I was actually in my parents’ master bedroom bed because we needed a larger space. My parents are retired, so they were taking care of me full-time. I went from courtroom trial lawyer to being bedridden.
Lara: On a bed pan. Okay, I’m talking strictly bedridden. I could not get up to go to the bathroom. My mom was showering me on a bed. I was hospitalized twice. Stanford, UCSF, you name it, west Coast experts, east coast experts. We even consulted British experts. None of them could help me because they would just prescribe pharmaceuticals.
Lara: They would make me worse. Genetic testing, Eastern treatments, I mean, you name it. I tried maybe 150 treatments over the course of three years. It felt like my body was undergoing rapid military testing. And I know your daughters, and you know your family understands this, given what you’ve gone through.
Lara: But I will tell you, there came a [00:10:00] point, we never got the right diagnosis because the 12 diagnoses they gave me didn’t heal me. Their treatments made me worse. And I was in this Job-like season where I was just. I was clinging to the Lord. I didn’t lose my faith. I never felt abandoned, but I did feel extremely lost and disillusioned as to, Lord, why aren’t you answering our prayers?
Lara: Please just, why did you allow me to travel in a car to Stanford Hospital when you. When that made me worse getting in a car. ’cause you can imagine the motion. Yeah. You know, we were praying, is this the solution, is this not? We took an ambulance, it made me worse. The doctors treated me horribly. I mean, I don’t wanna sound like a pity party.
Lara: I’m giving you sort of an overview of the traumatic experiences and yet I will tell you that I never. Lost my faith, only because as I’m wrestling with the Lord, Lord, where are you? Lord, answer, Lord, please. He never left me. It was like he was speaking co. He usually speaks to me through, I mean, he speaks to us in [00:11:00] different ways, but for me it’s usually like,
Lara: he’ll either speak inaudibly to my heart, but that’s more rare. It’s more like he’ll give me a devotional with a verse and then later that day, a friend, a Christian friend will text the same verse like, his grace is sufficient for you, or, you know, whatever it is. And I’ll know it’s a Holy Spirit text alert because it’s, he’s confirming the same idea and I can’t tell.
Lara: That’s the only reason I’m a Christian today, eight years into this neurological pain because he won’t let me go. It’s like second Timothy. I can’t remember the specific verse. It says, if we are faithless, he will remain faithful because he cannot disown himself. So no matter how much I was wrestling with him, really despising his will.
Lara: He never let me go and would keep speaking to me comfort even, even though it wasn’t healing. He would speak comfort. And then long story short. Four years into the illness, that was after being bedridden. Three straight years. I got a word from the Lord, which was very difficult to digest, but he finally called [00:12:00] me to permanent acceptance of this.
Lara: And I will tell you that you know a lot of people in my church community and, and even my family. Pushed back on this because obviously you know, who wants to hear, oh, my daughter just told me the Holy Spirit said that he’s not going to heal her until eternity. Like, wait, what? I, you know, because everyone has this instinct, even Christians who don’t believe the prosperity Gospel, they want to believe the Lord will heal you.
Lara: You know, and I. I’m just testifying to your audience as a sister in Christ that that word from the Lord was very hard. You know, it was like he was telling me this is like Paul’s chronic thorn in the flesh. Are you going to trust me or are you, are you not? And that kicked off the second part of my journey.
Lara: I don’t know if you have questions,
Kelly: There’s so much that stood out to me when you were just sharing that. One was, you know Jesus when it describes, he went to the cross and he despised the shame, and so you used the word, you despised the story, but you weren’t [00:13:00] despising God, just like Jesus.
Kelly: That was his example to us as he just went to the cross. For us. So I love your honesty in that, I love the wrestling, but I wanna say that what you hit on is really the key to maintaining faith in a weary place. It’s the fact that God is alive and he does speak. I mean, if God was just this absent, silent, disinterested God, why would we be following him?
Kelly: But you discovered what has rescued my weary heart more than anything else is that God is alive, God’s. Speaks to the deepest needs of our heart, and he shows us his love. And the way he did it for you was he would move in other people’s hearts in the community or in certain devotionals, and he would send you these things.
Kelly: That said, I see you, Laura. I am with you. Laura. I am helping you. Laura. I haven’t abandoned you, Laura. And he made you feel loved in that place where anyone would’ve felt so abandoned and lost. I appreciate you describing how God met you and that ongoing illness. If there’s more you wanna [00:14:00] share about that, why don’t we do that first?
Kelly: Because then I wanna get into that beautiful love story we have to share also.
Lara: Yeah, I just wanna say you know how Psalm 34 says the Lord is near to the brokenhearted. You and I can testify to this. If he was not, I would’ve given up a long time ago. You know, there’s a paragraph in my memoir where I’m on the bed, reminiscing thinking.
Lara: Lord, I mean, I was never seriously considering being an atheist, but I was being facetious of like, well, if I was an atheist, at least I wouldn’t have to struggle with, fighting with the God of the universe. But the fact that he actually answers us, and even Job three 15 says he speaks to them in their affliction.
Lara: And so I never experienced God’s closeness like this before. I was sick. Are you kidding? I mean, I was like chasing one earthly treasure to the next, gotta get the, you know, Supreme Court justice ship, you know, gotta get the, marry the hot Armenian Christian man. I have now become this totally different person.
Lara: And it was hard too though, because I was isolated and so were my parents for three years in one bedroom, no, [00:15:00] four years basically. ’cause even the first year when I was still walking, it was tough. And part of the sadness was. You know, Lord, why are you isolating us? Like we’re praying our whole church is praying, but we still feel, why are you coping us up?
Lara: It felt like we were in prison, and yet God kept giving me these ideas of, no, I am with you. Am I enough? You know, like, am I going to be enough? I am with you in the prison and . And he would give me these ideas of, remember Paul and Silas in prison, remember, we’re not the first Saints going through something difficult.
Lara: And so it’s just amazing how he really does speak. And just one more thing, it was very difficult, and my parents won’t even deny this, but like my parents, they have a relationship with the Lord, but it’s a bit different. I don’t think that, I think the Holy Spirit speaks to people differently, but.
Lara: What was hard was I felt like my family wasn’t really understanding when God would speak to me. ’cause I’d be like, you guys, God just spoke again. And they’d be like, okay. I mean, they weren’t saying our daughter’s a loony, but I [00:16:00] think, my dad actually was kind of a baby believer, if you will, in the beginning.
Lara: And so one beautiful. Thing that came through my illness was he is now a, a real believer, if you will, and I don’t mean that in a judgmental way. Like he was forced to read me the Bible for literally five years while my eyes were closed on a bed. And through that he discovered who God is in the Holy Spirit.
Lara: And so, now they don’t think I’m so crazy, but do you understand some of the isolation can be like, people might not understand you, even your intimate family members,
Kelly: oh yeah. When you are going through an illness, when you’re going through any kind of loss, the way that you are walking through it can make you feel very misunderstood.
Kelly: And the truth is a lot of people are very uncomfortable with an ongoing issue, an ongoing hardship that doesn’t resolve
Lara: yes. They just don’t know how to, it’s like you’re kind of like a pariah or something, because people don’t wanna admit that God could allow that to happen to them. Yeah. And so what they do is, and not my family, but people Right.
Lara: Might tend to blame you. [00:17:00] Even Christians who mean, well, it’s like, oh, you don’t have enough faith. I can tell you all the things people in my church community told me, and I, I love my church community. We’re not a prosperity gospel community. But even there, it’s tempting to feel like, oh, no, no, no.
Lara: God will never answer. No. Actually, God says no all the time. God said no to Moses to enter the promised land. God said no to Paul. God said no to David to build the temple. I mean, God says no all the time, and yet we don’t wanna. Discuss that or, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Kelly: Yes. There are many disappointing stories that don’t end the way we want them to.
Kelly: And that’s why this podcast is framed around that question, how do I trust God’s heart when his ways and delays keep breaking mine?
Lara: I love your tagline. I just love it. Yeah.
Kelly: You’ve explained how God met you and that ongoing illness, and I love the way you described your parents’ faith changing and deepening as well.
Kelly: I know we can. So misunderstood in those places where we don’t understand what God is doing and we can’t explain it to [00:18:00] anybody else. But that’s why the best friend you can ever have is one who’s willing to sit with you in the unresolved and in the mystery of what God is doing. Yeah. And they’re just saying, I’m gonna be your friend.
Kelly: We don’t understand it, but I’m not gonna judge you in this.
Lara: Absolutely. And can I just say one more thing on an an unrelated topic? Yeah. The Holy Spirit was powerfully with me in the confusion of needing to resign because in other words, when I had to, like the week that the US attorney’s office was asking me, are you coming back or not?
Lara: I remember opening my daily devotional app. You know, I have like four Christian apps, and I opened one of them and the message of the day was. Are you walking through something where it feels like God just doesn’t make sense? Did he open a door only to close it? And man, I was in tears. I was like, this is me.
Lara: This is me. ’cause I was praying, Lord I can’t even go back. ’cause I was bedridden by that point. And, and the message was. Trust me. Trust the Lord when he [00:19:00] doesn’t make sense. He’s weaving something beautiful and you can’t see it now. And it was like, oh my gosh, Lord Jesus. ’cause. ’cause I knew that the Lord was answering me, ’cause my sister and I were praying, Lord, give us a sign.
Lara: Does she quit? Does she not? And there he was. He just showed up for me and comforted me. Because you have to understand, for me being like the you know, career driven woman I was, which was bad, idolizing career over christ and other stuff for me, I needed that push to feel at peace about surrendering the job, and so I’m just showing you another tangible way in which the Holy Spirit was holding my hand.
Lara: He never let me go, like, oh, go, you know? I mean, with Abraham, he tested him even more because he didn’t, he just said. You know what? Go kill your son. You know, I mean, we don’t talk about that enough. He literally tested Abraham to that extent. And I see that in your story. Honestly, Kelly and I see how faithful you’ve been.
Lara: You’re like a modern day Abraham to me. Because the fact that you are able to walk through all of your children’s diagnoses and then another trial, and then another trial, and [00:20:00] yet still surrender them to the Lord, it, you have no idea how much it encourages me, and I’m sure your entire audience, but just side note.
Kelly: Okay. You said. It’s so confusing when God opens a door only to close it. Like the timing of that does not make sense. And this also relates to your story, your love story, which we’ll get to. But I wanna add that the story of John the Baptist resonates so deeply with me in that way too, because , he is the forerunner of Christ.
Kelly: Yes. And yet his earthly ministry, some theologians say it was only six months long. Could have been as long as a year and a half, maybe two years. They don’t really know, but you know, how can you look at that and go, really? I mean, that was a really short amount of time. How can that be purposeful? And yet we know that it was in God’s eyes.
Kelly: It was deeply purposeful because he was the forerunner of Christ. And I think that helps us see our stories differently. God opened a door for John the Baptist, but then he closed it when he went into [00:21:00] prison that just seems so crazy.
Lara: I know. And the beheading, I mean, that story never sat well with anyone.
Lara: It’s like if you read the passage, because I was reading it yesterday, it’s like Jesus says, the kingdom has come and we’re all thinking, all right, are you gonna go bail John out now?
Lara: Like, all right, let’s go. You know, John’s in prison and yet he never goes to rescue John. And I feel like God is kind of hinting. There is going to be this suffering thing happening in this kingdom thing. Can you trust me? , His ways are just so much higher than our ways. Like Isaiah 55 is the only verse that comforts me sometimes.
Lara: It’s not the only verse, but it’s like it because his ways are higher than our ways. We’re just not going to understand it. And I’m a prideful person, so it has been eight years of wrestling with God. Why? Why? Why? And he had to like couple months ago, he literally, this Holy Spirit point blank rebuked me and said, stop asking why?
Lara: And not in a mean way ’cause he’s tender, but it’s. Getting us to the point where we’re not gonna know everything. Like I, I feel like we [00:22:00] feel entitled to the answers, or at least I did. You know? And he tell, he gives us some insights, but not everything, obviously, you know, why would we worship him?
Lara: As Elizabeth Elliot said, unless he was big enough to worship.
Kelly: Right, also that Isaiah 55 verse, which says, his ways and thoughts are higher than ours. That has comforted me deeply too. And what you’re doing when you’re believing the truth of that is you’re surrendering to the mystery of a God who’s so much bigger than we are.
Kelly: You’re just saying, okay, I’m convinced you really are who you say you are. I’m convinced you really know what you’re doing. I’m convinced I cannot understand it, and I’m just gonna trust you and follow you in this.
Now I want you to skip ahead. Let’s hear the beautiful love story.
Kelly: So you wanted to get married, that was your dream, and all these people tried to fix you up for like 10 years.
Lara: I would say if I idolize things, before I hit 30, it was like marriage, career, having children. Yeah, that was probably the order, it was like, marriage was definitely even more of an idol than, than my career was.
Lara: So you can imagine [00:23:00] and, the Lord had kept me single, from literally age, 21 until. I was strictly bedridden. So anyway, what happens is, this was four years ago, the Lord had just called me to acceptance of this illness. He gives me a word from the Holy Spirit. I’m demoralized, I’m still bedridden.
Lara: And ironically, this was when I felt like I, well, I was going to die. Let’s be clear, because I had lost a lot of weight. You can read my memoir for the details, but I was at a point where, okay, Lord, I’ve tried a million treatments. You’re obviously not putting your hand on this. If I don’t start sitting up and trying to walk again, I’m going to die.
Lara: Okay. And my, it was hysteria, you have to read my book, but I’m starting to try to sit up again. And when I sat up, the world’s spinning, it’s still spinning. It’s been eight years. But the point is, at that juncture, the Lord brings this man into my life.
Lara: He was an acquaintance from church. His name was Matt. We were friends from church. He was four years older than me, and we really didn’t know each other, but he [00:24:00] was known as kind of like the walking miracle in our church circles because he had healed from cancer at age 15. And there he was at age 37, , and he called my mom and said, can I come visit your daughter? Well actually, sorry, he was calling me while I was bedridden, you know, every few months. Just like to give me spiritual advice. And again, we were just acquaintances and he was like this lifeline where we would have these one hour phone calls once every three months just for him to give me spiritual advice on how to clinging in this deep suffering because he had suffered.
Lara: A lot, even in his PhD. He was a biochemical engineering PhD, just brilliant. And so when I started sitting up and the Lord gives me this word, I was like, okay, Lord, I don’t love you anymore. You’re telling me you’re not going to heal me. I won’t accept this. I can’t believe you’re telling me this now after I’ve been on a bed bedpan for four years and.
Lara: The Lord brings this man into my life. I had him visit me ’cause I said, I can’t cope with this. So he visits me for the first time after four years, he’s the [00:25:00] first friend to walk into our house. We were completely isolated. Other than my aunts. And he walks in and the plot twist is he was wearing a chemo pump because he had just been diagnosed himself with stage four intestinal cancer, which was a different cancer from his childhood.
Lara: And he walks in and his face is glowing, radiating with Christ’s peace. Almost like Moses coming down the mountain. And I’m thinking. Weren’t you just diagnosed with cancer? And he was the most spiritually mature person I’d ever met. He was our youth group leader.
Lara: So on top of being a professor at San Francisco State University, he would donate all of his free time to our youth ministry. He would make Bible devotional for kids connecting Batman and Lord of the Rings and all these fun movies. To Bible verses, and the kids loved him. He grew our youth ministry from three kids to 30 kids.
Lara: And the point is he starts visiting me and I’m on that bed and he’s sitting next to me with his chemo pump. And we just debated theology until 2:00 AM in the morning for maybe seven weeks. He would visit once a week because I [00:26:00] was getting edified by this. He was giving me a real theology of suffering.
Lara: And I can’t explain it to you, Kelly, but by the end of those seven weeks, and ironically it was right before Valentine’s Day. We just realized that we were just. Crushing on each other. And I, I don’t know, he cracks a joke. I crack a joke. And it turned out to be, long story short, it turned out to be this beautiful love story.
Lara: And you can imagine we were praying to God like, okay, where did this come from? Why are we liking each other? Is this from the Lord? Matt is dying of cancer. I am bedridden. Is this a Florence Nightingale complex? And long story short, even amidst all the confusion, the Lord very clearly.
Lara: Spoke to me at least with Matt. Matt was so strong the Lord didn’t even need to speak to him. He was willing to walk forward in faith without signs and this and that. But the Lord told me, take this joy in your grief. Mm-hmm. And that was like, okay, you’re, you’re giving me the green light to date this man.
Lara: And we dated for six months and then we planned a wedding for six months [00:27:00] and then we got married and Matt went to Glory exactly one year after our wedding. And. I will tell you, when Matt entered heaven, and you can imagine our whole church was praying for miracles. Matt, in the beginning he had a conviction.
In Philippians one it says, Paul says, I will remain. I feel like I’m gonna remain. It is good for the church for me to remain. And, and God did keep Matt on earth for three years of intestinal cancer. Even though that diagnosis, doctors say people only live six months. So it was a total miracle.
Lara: God kept Matt alive to marry me, and I walked down that aisle. While the world was spinning around me in a gorgeous dress, if I don’t mind saying, and it was a miracle. And that one year of Ministry of Marriage, our ministry to our church was, can you show people that you can have joy in grief, that you can rejoice because this is the day that the Lord has made.
Lara: Can you trust me? Even though you are, you are still bedridden and Matt is, you know, literally dying. And that’s what it was.
Kelly: Is just mind [00:28:00] boggling. There were times when I just had tears running down my face because the love and the beauty of God inviting y’all into the joy of marriage, even though you were both sick, it’s so incredible.
Kelly: One time I know you thought, why should I even hope, why should we even receive this joy? But it reminded me so much in the Bible when the Israelites were in, in captivity, in Babylon, and God said to them, keep marrying, keep having children. Keep celebrating. You know, and so he invites us to have hope and joy, even in times where things are hard all around us.
Kelly: It’s so beautiful.
Lara: I mean that that really was the flagship lesson that God has taught me the last four years, which is why my memoir is titled Singing Through Fire. I mean, I’m a jazz singer, but it’s also a metaphor of can you have joy amidst adverse? , And God himself gave me the joy.
Lara: Otherwise, I was literally in a pit of despair. It’s not like I was so great at finding joy and resilience. [00:29:00] God brought Matt to me, and he was my sweetest blessing in the fire, and Matt brought me so much joy and just meaning, , and just to be married, I was like the bedridden bride,
Lara: it was like, it was never the story I wanted. There were a lot of ups and downs with between me and the Lord of, I never wanted it to look this way. I didn’t want this story. I didn’t want to have to get to the hotel, two weeks in advance so that my brain would calm down. And I mean, just all of the, that was my rebellious heart, just still kind of fighting the Lord as to why the story looks this way.
Lara: But looking back now, I’m like. Thank you Lord for giving me this gracious gift. Despite myself, like you really did write this and our story was a testimony by megaphone to our entire church community that, hey. These people are walking forward in faith even though Matt’s dying of cancer.
Lara: And look at the gift God is giving them. I mean, it was so miraculous. And some people would look at us and say, oh, they’re stupid. Why would he get married? The guy’s dying. I mean, this is how the world views these things. And yet. [00:30:00] God says, his wisdom is just so above ours.
Lara: Like our wisdom is futile. Like he can give his gifts, rain or shine, death or heaven. You know, I mean, it’s like he will bless us and, and if we would just take it rather than fight his story. And I’m sad to say a lot of my journey, you know, ’cause I wanna be honest with someone out there who’s listening today because a lot of my journey was really me being bitter at the Lord.
Lara: And thankfully now, eight years in. I, I have changed. You can see I’m more at a place of surrender, but it took me a very long time to get there, if you will. I wanna be honest, you know.
Kelly: Right. Well, you were faithful to wrestle through, and that’s the key. Are we willing to just keep coming to the Lord in instead of walking away from him.
Kelly: We saw Moses do that when he came to the Israelites and said, guess what? God’s gonna set you free. Let’s go. And then their slavery got worse, it got tons worse. And they looked at Moses and said, what in the heck? And Moses runs to the Lord and said, what are u [00:31:00] doing? Like you said, you’re gonna set them free and you’re not doing that at all.
Kelly: And then the Lord just gives them the beautiful promise all over again. So God often doesn’t make. Sense, but, but the beauty of his presence and the truth of his word and his faithfulness and his love remains steadfast. So I would love for you to tell us a couple of beautiful moments with you and Matt.
Kelly: Because the joy he experienced was also something he never would’ve imagined as he, as he was dying and fighting for his life.
Lara: So Matt was this stoic engineer type. I mean, we couldn’t have been more polar opposites. Like I’m this extroverted musical theater extraordinaire, jazz singer who’s, you know, way too outgoing for her own good, and Matt is this like introverted, stoic engineer.
Lara: He had never had a girlfriend. Okay. That gives you a picture of, he was so saint like, I mean, , he was just razor focused on the Lord. Very nerdy. Just in such an adorable way. I mean, my heart just. Ate that up, that’s what I wanted, you know? And so my point in, in raising that is that God [00:32:00] brought us together.
Lara: I think because I was able to teach Matt, Hey, can you please enjoy the earthly blessings a little, you know, loosen up a little. ’cause he would donate all his money to Haiti and other missions teams he was on. And it was like. No, I’m going to buy you a, a, a $300 suit and you’re gonna wear it and you’re gonna feel glamorous and you’re not gonna donate that money because you deserve earthly blessings too.
Lara: The Lord wants to provide for you too. And the flip side is he was teaching me, oh no honey, you are idolizing earthly blessings. Enough is enough. You need to put your eye on eternal blessings. And he flipped me in the opposite direction where it was like. Look at me now. Now I’m preaching on podcasts that heaven is better than Earth.
Lara: I mean, who am I? I don’t even know who I am. You know, if you hadn’t met me eight years ago, Kelly, and so God gave us those moments, that’s one piece is how God used us to change one another and give each other joy in our valleys and really change one another.
Lara: But the second point is God gave us music as a [00:33:00] ministry. So like I said, I’m a singer. That’s why this book is titled Singing Through Fire. And there came a point, even as I am, I was bedridden. And because Matt played flute, I would sit up, I would sing a jazz song, he would play along with his flute, and then I started learning violin because I don’t have to move my neck too much.
Lara: You can imagine the whole world spinning while I’m playing, but it felt like another gift from the Lord. I mean, we were just in our house on house arrest, kind of like Paul and Silas, and yet we were worshiping in prison, like Paul and Silas and then God even gave us like a one year anniversary banquet at our church where we played three violin flute duets, and it was to raise money for Matt’s Haiti team.
Lara: You know, they’re like a missions team. And that was two months before Matt died. Matt couldn’t even eat anything at the banquet, and yet he was standing there giving us speech saying we’re gonna plow through in cancer and neurological pain because Ephesians five 16 says, make the most of every opportunity because the days are evil.
Lara: And so. [00:34:00] Again, it was like, to your point about John the Baptist. Amazing. Yes. My marriage was only one year, but look at the ministry God gave us and then we started the Silverman Show on YouTube, which is just a baby channel. It’s like, whatever, we’ve got like 500 subscribers, but who cares? We were uploading all of Matt’s sermons.
Lara: He was still preaching amidst the cancer. All of my jazz songs, my comedies, we even filmed a movie on being Christian newlyweds who are sick. And because Matt’s dad is a videographer, so in our house we just kind of played around and I wrote his. Screenplay. I mean, the point is, even in our prison, we were stuck at home.
Lara: I couldn’t even go to church ’cause I’m still bedridden. And yet God gave us so much joy in 365 days. And even in hospice, Matt couldn’t eat for nine weeks, you guys. And yet even in hospice, he, his face was radiating with Christ’s peace. I was like, I don’t even know who my husband is. I mean, I was, I was begging the Lord in tears every night.
Lara: And yet Matt was just like. I’m at peace. I’m so excited. And I was almost mad at him like, aren’t you sad you’re leaving me? I mean, come [00:35:00] on. And he was obviously, but I’m trying to tell you that God gave us so much joy, even in hospice, which was like the least likely place, you know?
Kelly: God is bigger than we can imagine. And when we talk about needing grace, needing help, needing strength, your story just resonates with the fact that we have access to more power and more beauty, more grace than we can even imagine. And we can even imagine. But you taught each other how to live.
Kelly: Differently through the Lord’s spirit in your challenges. And it’s such a testimony to us and such a reminder of how much God is doing. I just wanna share a little bit about the verses. Romans 8 28. God is working all things for good, right?
Kelly: And initially when you’re walking through suffering that is deep and intense and people are throwing that verse at you, I would say if one more person says that, I’m gonna kick ’em in the shins and I’m gonna go talk to the Lord about it. Because it can sound trite but it’s true.
Kelly: It is a true promise and it’s a powerful promise. You [00:36:00] have been talking about the good that y’all discovered and one of the good that you mentioned. Already is the intimacy that you have found and that’s what I would attest to as well. I am a different person than when I started walking through this.
Kelly: And I would say I am more in love with Jesus now than I ever was before, and I can’t even imagine. Not being this deeply in love with him, and it’s because of how he’s met me in suffering. His tenderness and compassion is overwhelming me all the time. So you talk to us about more of the goodness that you would say you have experienced.
Lara: I would say like even after Matt died, I was at this moment where it was like a job-like moment where I was like, okay, Lord, I lost the health, I lost the career. Now I lost the husband and in some ways I felt all along like God was preparing me, in terms of give and take away.
Lara: It’s like, remember with the US Attorney’s office, when I had to quit, God told me. When I open a door and then close it, trust me. . And he did the [00:37:00] same with Matt again, like, who wants to be married only one year? And so I’m ashamed to say I experienced a lot of great bitterness … this last six months has been better.
Lara: I have surrendered, I’ve done some fasting, I mean, we could get into it, but the first year after Matt died was very tough for me emotionally, because I felt fleeced again, and it was a wrestling match between me and me and the Lord. But he never left me again. He was. Faithful to me, even when I’m yelling at him in my thoughts, and I’m so ashamed now.
Lara: I’ve had to repent and I say this again, just to maybe comfort someone that you’re not the only one. And, and look how God remained faithful to me, even though I don’t deserve to be on this podcast, given my rebellious fighting against his will , and yet, look, he’s redeeming me because if my story can help someone else.
Lara: Sort of skip that anger phase, like if only I knew that surrender is what leads to peace and we should know it. Even Amy Carmichael said, what was her famous line in acceptance Lies peace. And it’s like. God gave me enough, but I didn’t grab [00:38:00] onto it.
Lara: And yet I’m still, I’m still clinging. Okay. But the point is the good that God gave me, so after Matt dies, I’m crying on that bed. It was like a month in and I felt. Very clearly, like the Lord was telling me, have you forgotten so fast?
Lara: Having joy in grief? What have I been teaching you the last eight years, Laura? And that night, I opened my Christian devotional again. And what’s the topic? Having joy and grief. It was like about rejoicing in the sorrow and, you know, finding the good, even when we’re. Sad about what has been lost.
Lara: And that night I was like, okay, Lord, you’re calling me to try to find joy again. And that’s how my Armenian comedy show was born. And so I started cracking Armenian jokes on Instagram. You know, my family loves cultural comedy and so here I was, gre a grieving wife. And then I was, making these comedy clips on Instagram.
Lara: People probably thought isn’t this the woman whose husband just died? Is she a nut? Case, why is she doing a comedy show? It’s so counterintuitive, and yet the Lord was giving me that [00:39:00] as an avenue of joy because he knows performance makes me tick. Yeah. And it was like the one way that I could laugh again and find joy again, and I felt the Lord’s hand on it, not like blessing, whatever.
Lara: It became a ministry of sorts because people would message me, not, you know, Armenians who aren’t neccessarily Christian, and then they would find out about my story ’cause I would post about Matt and I think it made them pause like. Okay, so this woman she’s showing joy. She can have joy even though she just lost her husband.
Lara: And I’m very authentic on Instagram. I share Bible verses and how God walks me through grief. And so they could see how okay, Jesus is giving this woman joy. How does she have the guts to, to start a comedy show of all things, you know, in the middle of grief. It’s like an oxymoron. So God’s goodness followed me even after Matt died.
Lara: And then the Lord very clearly called me to write this book because one. I, I’m on the bed, you know, and, and my mom walks in, gives me a card. And it was from a mentor and, and it was written, have you considered writing a book [00:40:00] on your journey? And I was thinking, no, , I’m used to be a lawyer.
Lara: I’ve never wanted to be an author. And then the next day, another friend calls and says, have you considered writing a memoir or a Christian book, you know, to share some of what you’ve learned? And I thought it was kind of strange and I start praying about it. And then the following, week. I kept bumping into Ephesians two 10, everywhere, which says, God prepared good works in advance for us to do.
Lara: And I was like, all right, holy Spirit, I know you’re telling me. And I got so excited because being the go-getter I am, you know, I’m still bedridden. I didn’t feel like I have no worth. ’cause I had grown a lot spiritually by this point, but I felt like, all right, Lord, you’re equipping me for good work.
Lara: So for eight months I had my laptop on my bed. Just ’cause I’m still bedridden. I wrote the whole book on my bed, my mom bringing me snacks, and then God led me to all these different mentors to be able to publish this thing. And I published it. And to his glory, it, hit a number one bestselling status.
Lara: He has surprised and it’s not the good is about the number one or whatever. I’m [00:41:00] so past that. You can tell I care less now. The Lara you’re seeing now is so different from the 29-year-old, eight years ago.
Lara: But his goodness is showing how he does redeem suffering because my book, people have been emailing me. Oh my gosh, your book helped me so much, and it’s not me. It’s the Lord wrote the book. You know, it’s his story. And so you see how God just never allows us to go through pain unless he has plans to redeem it.
Lara: And if only we would surrender to the story, please surrender earlier than I did. That’s my message today.
Kelly: Okay, we’re gonna step back a little bit. I love everything you have to say, but I have about 10 thoughts while you’re talking that I wanna talk about go.
Kelly: But one of the things I I really wanna highlight is that you’re talking about the wrestling as a time in your life when you were being disobedient. But I just wanna say wrestling is the key to surrender. If we don’t wrestle through all the. Thoughts that are so confusing and so hurtful and so painful with the Lord.
Kelly: That’s what you were doing. That was so good. You ran to the Lord with all your confusion. [00:42:00] You wrestled it out with the Lord in the presence of the Lord. And then he brought clarity and he spoke to you . That’s what we talk about a lot on this podcast I know there were times when you just thought I don’t understand if God is good, why can’t he just be good like you were wanting good to look like an outcome that made sense to a normal person. But what God showed you along the way is that I will redeem your suffering and there’s so much suffering in this world that God is using your suffering to bring other people to the hope of Christ, and that is.
Kelly: Powerful and beautiful, and it’s the story of the entire Bible. It’s the invitation that is offered in the Bible, and I’m so, so, so grateful. One of the questions I wanted to ask you is how we can learn to hold joy and grief together as we walk through loss. You described just now God invited you to walk in your giftedness to walk into the person he made you to be.
Kelly: And as he poured himself through you in these [00:43:00] extroverted, funny ways that you love expressing yourself, he brought hope and health and life. To your soul and joy. And so I think maybe that’s an instruction for those of us who are walking through loss just to follow the Lord don’t shut down your life.
Kelly: Keep living in the loss.
Lara: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. I mean, that was Matt’s ministry and preaching his whole three years of cancer. He was saying, I’m gonna keep living like, because if I die tomorrow, I’m still gonna be alive. So who cares? I mean, his faith in heaven and eternity and was just so beyond anything I had ever met.
Lara: He was so faithful and that really radically changed. I mean, John, what is it? Is it John 1125, which says like, we will never die. The one who believes in me will never, yes, our bodies die, but like whatever. So that really changes the game in loss because you just, you know that your earthly loss is, yes, they’re painful, but there’s all of eternity for the [00:44:00] Lord to just shower you with, other gifts and other new surprises.
Lara: What’s the verse in Matthew where Jesus says, anyone who follows me will be repaid in eternity, double fold, or a hundred fold? But it’s like we don’t know what he has in store. No, I has seen, no ear has heard the things, and we don’t always have to look to eternity.
Lara: He does. Bless us here in tangible ways too, but. When he does take something away, I think he’s saying Turn to me. The story is not over at death. I mean, he has said that to me over and over again because a lot of my journey too has been wrestling with my own mortality as well as you’ve seen reading my book and the Lord has comforted me over and over again that.
Lara: Your story is not over at death, my child. Can you view death as the gateway to me? Christ changed the whole game. Can my people stop fearing death already? I mean, precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints. And I saw that in hospice. Like you could just see. Matte glowing, and again, that changes the whole game when we’re suffering.
Kelly: Oh, it really [00:45:00] does. The Lord is so faithful, as Laura has said, to come near to the brokenhearted and to. speak to the deepest needs and the deepest wounds of our heart as he walks us into places of wholeness.
Kelly: And Laura, that’s what your story is about I recommend this. Book Highly to Everyone. It’s such a great read. It’s hard to put down, , I have it on Kindle, so I would read it at night before bed, but there would be times when I had tears running down my face and times when I was chuckling out loud.
Kelly: So, Laura, thank you so much for joining me. I would love to talk to you for about three more hours, but I’ll just let you close this out with some thoughts for our listeners that are on your heart

Lara: When the Lord called me to acceptance of my neurological condition four years ago, that was very difficult to accept, as you can imagine, because who wants to be bedridden the rest of their life, you know, or semi bedridden.
Lara: And he gave me a verse, which I had never really focused on or realized, and it was second Corinthians four 17, [00:46:00] which says, our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal weight of glory that far outweighs them all. And I remember getting that and thinking. Oh my gosh, Lord, you are telling me that this severe affliction it’s been eight years now, like that this is achieving something.
Lara: It’s not a waste because as a go-getter, like, and I hate calling myself that. I don’t wanna sound pompous. I’m trying to give you a framework of who I am. As someone who values work and purpose the hardest part of this illness for me has not even . Been being on a bed pan, it’s the fact that I felt like there was no point in any of this.
Lara: And when God gave me that verse, it was like. No, these troubles are achieving something for eternity, whether it’s changing me, I mean, we don’t know the precise calculus, how God is working that out, but I started consuming copious sermons on that verse, and it comforted my heart so much because it meant that my pain was not pointless.
Lara: Like, you know, the trite phrase, oh, there’s point. Purpose in the pain. I never believed that until God actually [00:47:00] gave me this verse and I realized, oh my gosh, Lord, you are doing a million things through this pain. This is achieving eternal glory for me, for you, for my community. Who knows how the Lord is working it, but it just comforted my heart so much, and I would encourage.
Lara: Anyone out there listening today that’s coping with just this intense loss that does not feel light and momentary, but remember when Paul wrote those words, he was, being stoned and imprisoned and shipwrecked and all this stuff. What Paul is saying is, yes, the pain is hard, but the weight of glory coming is just gonna blow your mind.
Lara: We’re gonna see it in eternity. We don’t know now, but imagine getting to eternity and being like. Wow, that was worth it. I mean, I don’t think we can say it now because in the thick of pain it’s difficult, but I think that’s what the Lord wants us to do. He wants us to rejoice in all circumstances, and that’s the only reason why there’s purpose.
Kelly: Wow, it’s something that we can work through and process for the rest of our lives as we allow the Lord to help us [00:48:00] to develop a way to view suffering that is. So different than the world’s view suffering.
Lara: Do you mind just say one more thing? Yeah. And this is credit to you. You had Melissa McLaughlin on your podcast, this woman’s. Brother is disabled, severely disabled his whole life. And when she was crying in church one day asking the Lord, why on Earth did you allow my brother to go through this suffering during his earthly time? And the Lord answered her and said, if I chose for your brother to have earthly suffering, such that he will reap eternal blessings for.
Lara: All eternity. That is my choice. In heaven, he will wear a beautiful crown. Okay, just stop and think about this. I mean, for every chronic illness sufferer, I’m not saying, you know, I deserve a crown or whatever. I’m just saying think about how God flips the worldview suffering. So. Wrong. That insight it blew my mind
Lara: I mean, just imagine the Lord saying that to you about your daughters or about, [00:49:00] Matt, or, you know what I’m saying?
Kelly: Absolutely. I think of, , Joni Erickson Tada paralyzed from the age of 16 and now she’s in her seventies. She suffered so much. Wow. What a crown That gal is gonna wear an eternity.
Kelly: Well, Laura, thank you so much. You have blessed me tremendously, and I know our listeners have been blessed. Thank you for writing the book. I can’t believe you wrote it in bed. I know. Thank it was all the Lord. Thank you so much. I’ll have links in the show notes so everyone can connect and see all your stuff.
Lara: Thank you so much, Kelly.
Kelly: All right, love you my friend.
If you were encouraged in your faith today, i’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, kelly hall.org and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the Unshakable Hope podcast.