Podcast

107. Cultivating Fierce Faith When Life Doesn’t Make Sense: Angela Donadio

Angela: [00:00:00] I want you to live in this place of dependency on me, Angela. I’m gonna do things in your life that you’re not going to be able to go where I need you to go if you don’t let go and let me lead and live in dependency. That was the first lesson. But this lesson was really, complete and utter surrender in that hospital room. God is good. He’s trustworthy, and he’s worthy of our worship. Even when we don’t understand the situation that we’re going through.

Welcome to the Unshakable whole podcast, where real life intersects redeeming love. I’m Kelly Hall, and this is where we wrestle through faith questions such as, how do I trust God’s heart when his ways and delays are breaking mind? We’ll hear from people just like you and me who have experienced God’s faithfulness when life didn’t unfold as they expected my prayers, that God would renew our hope and his word and his love through these [00:01:00] conversations.

Hey guys, if you’re needing some fresh encouragement, I hope you’ll check out the free 31 day devotional that you can download from my website. I’ve mentioned this is compiled from 31 women from all over the country. They’re sharing stories about how the Lord poured out his love and rescued them in the wildernesses of.

Fear, shame and suffering. Just go to kelly hall.org. Either sign up on my homepage or my resource page, and after you confirm your email, you’ll receive a link to download on your phone and your computer. Don’t worry if there’s a delay between those emails, one. Dear listener, you guys gotta tell you. She printed the entire devo and then sent me a screenshot of the journaling page from the first two days of her devo, she used these large post-it notes for her journaling and her verses so she could use it again. And the list of verses and the fears that she was [00:02:00] surrendering to the Lord. It was just deeply humbling.

I loved it. So I hope you’ll go check it out kelly hall.org. I just pray the Lord will minister to your heart in deep ways.

Well, I can’t wait for you to hear the conversation I have for you today. Oh my goodness. My guest is Angela Donadio and

I was so encouraged. She shares some powerful statements. I went back and took some notes. We’re looking at three stories, powerful and impactful. One is from Angela’s life, and then we’re going in deep with the story of Rahab and the story of the bleeding woman. And I heard some things and learned some things that I had never heard before, and my faith was so encouraged.

And also, and this is just such a special treat. Angela just arrived back from Greece, and so you’re gonna hear some insights that you’ve probably never heard before from the places you read about in the Bible.

So if you’ve been feeling weary from some parts of your story, that just don’t make sense, not only can Angela and I relate, but we are both praying [00:03:00] that today would cultivate some fresh and fiery faith in your hearts.

Angela Donio is a truly anointed ministry leader who longs to make life matter for the kingdom, and she just brings others along for the adventure. She’s a published author, international speaker, a ministry mentor, and founder of Voice of the Voiceless and founder of the Communicators Collective, of which I’ve been a part of, and I love going there.

Angela holds a master of leadership and ministry, and she partners with her husband Dale, who’s pastor of River of Life, to lead a diverse church outside of Washington dc. Angela is passionate about helping others engage with God’s word. Embrace God’s call and experience God’s heart for missions.

She’s a lover of statement earrings, which is just so fun. And she is a grateful mom to two young adults. Angela, I can’t tell you how grateful I am that you’re joining me today.

Angela: Oh, Kelly, it’s my honor. I, I just thank the world of you and it’s a joy to be here with you and your [00:04:00] listeners today.

Kelly: Thank you so much. Well, as we are recording this, you’ve just returned home from leading worship on a trip to Greece where you, you and your group trace the footsteps of Paul. I would love to just hear a highlight of that time. Mm-hmm.

Angela: Oh, I loved it. It was such an honor and a joy to lead worship. I, Carol McLeod and Carol Kent were the Bible teachers in this particular tour, and I just served alongside of them.

Angela: In fact, my statement Earings today are from Greece. So when you Oh, they’re beautiful. Oh, wait a minute. I put on a pair from Greece. This was my second time Kelly to be there. I was there a year ago with my husband and we were teaching in some sites. Probably the most special moment for me both times has been in Corinth and we know Paul.

Angela: Paul wrote the books of First and second Corinthians to the Corinthian church there, but Priscilla, who I wrote about in Fearless, served there and, and housed Paul. She and Aquila, her husband housed Paul for 18 months in their home. And so to [00:05:00] be present where we know for sure. They were serving. And you know, with, if you’re standing, let’s say down in the main area where probably their shop would’ve been, their tent making shop, you can see the Acropolis easily from where you’re standing.

Angela: And that would’ve been the temple of Aphrodite. So when I studied her life. One of the most insightful moments that has happened to me on any tour. Uh, my, my tour guide Alii told us last year, and so I shared that moment with our tour this year, but I was looking up at that last year and then again, this time it is quite a distance from the top of that.

Angela: You know, Acropolis where the temple would’ve been. Now it’s just, you know, a handful of ruins rubble down to the town and, and I knew that as many as a thousand women and some boys served as sex slaves to that temple of Aphrodite. And that would’ve been the cult, this overly sexualized. Kind of anything goes culture of Corinth [00:06:00] is, is the culture that Paul and Priscilla and Aquila were called to minister to and to make an impact in.

Angela: So I looked at my guide to leaky and I said, no, wait. Are you telling me that like the men would walk all the way up to that Acropolis from here? How can you even see it? I was just trying to like logistically think that through and she said no. The young girls or boys would walk down and the soles of their feet would have marked in in the soul.

Angela: The words in Greek follow me. So everywhere they would step. It would leave an imprint. And so anyone, the sailors who were landing in a port, people that was a very high bustling area, it was known for this, they would know they could follow them back up to that Acropolis. In fact, in Ephesus where I was last year, you when you see a handful of brothels and outside of it is a little plaque with a [00:07:00] footprint, because it was so recognizable of this is.

Angela: This is a place that you can follow me into. And so Kelly, that’s the very place that Paul said to the Corinthians, follow me as I follow Christ. Mm. And of course, he was not borrowing the phrase, but expanding on Jesus saying, follow me. And I will make you fishers of men. So I think, you know, as having a heart for women, I was in Bangkok last year for a, a human trafficking and sex slavery summit.

Angela: Um, just in the space that I live in, loving and ministering to women, but also just as a Christ follower, I think that moment will, will never leave me. And to think that as Christ followers today, we don’t have something engraved in our shoes. But are we really walking out this life in a way that marks the, the soil in a way that people would wanna follow our [00:08:00] lives, in the way that we follow Christ?

Angela: So it was, it was an impactful, challenging. Experience, and I love Priscilla. She’s really like my girl of the Bible. I love all the women of the Bible, but it’s, you know, that are Christ followers. But to be where I know she served and loved her, cul her culture enough. To impact it, especially in a culture that was really anti-God.

Angela: I think probably Corinth is most resemblance maybe of the, the, the culture in the states. You know, very image conscience, status driven, oversexualized, kind of anything goes. It’s a reminder to me that if they could make a dent and leave an impact for the kingdom, then. Then, like you said earlier, we don’t have to be intimidated.

Angela: God’s not intimidated and we don’t have to live intimidated either. That just came back to me in that moment this time too. Wow. That is so powerful. I right. Standing there, it’s, it’s [00:09:00] something like. Gosh. It, it just breaks my heart with the, just the brokenness. The brokenness is just so hard to imagine, but yet it’s everywhere and you see it up close and personal in your ministry.

Angela: But I love how God and how Paul takes this broken phrase. Hmm. And redeemed it. And just pointed it to Jesus. And that’s what God does with all of our brokenness. He just steps in and points us to Jesus and redeems and transforms. Every broken place. Every broken place. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Angela: In your book, you mentioned you some near death experiences that you walked through, and the reason I really want you to

Angela: share this is a lot of my listeners and even some people in my own family walk through health issues that are frightening, that are unresolved, that are very difficult, and I would love for you to share about that time in your life and how God met you in that place.

Angela: Absolutely Kelly and my heart is with [00:10:00] all of those that you know personally. So many that we know and love have health issues and challenges. As you said, we live in a broken world, so our lives aren’t perfect here. My health has kind of been my personal challenge. I hate to say cross to bear, but you know, we all have different areas that are.

Angela: Uh, a challenge. And for me, ever since I was a little girl, I’ve had health challenges. Currently I’m experiencing trouble with my vision. I have been, uh, severely nearsighted most of my life and I’ve developed cataracts and, uh, I have a torn retina. So, you know, those places keep us very dependent on the Lord, because we don’t necessarily like the health problem.

Angela: But we love what God can do in and through the situation, and that’s the tension that I think we hold as believers. Um, he’s sovereign. He can say a word and it would all go away, but when it doesn’t, is he still good? When life is not good, that’s the real question, right? So the, although I’m [00:11:00] currently walking through something with my, my eyes 20 years ago I nearly lost my life In 2001, I nearly hemorrhage to death after a hysterectomy for endometriosis.

Angela: We still to this day, don’t know what caused it, but I, hemorrhage to death fully awake all night long and lost more than half my blood supply in, in that until my doctor was on call and came in and, and they did a lifesaving procedure. So that was a very low moment. And I remember going home and saying to the Lord, Kelly, I don’t ever wanna feel that desperate again.

Angela: And he said, Angela, that’s, that’s how I want you to always feel. Is that desperate for me? And that dependent on me. And if I could be honest, I loved God before that, but I think I was much more self-reliant than I wanted to admit that I was and a bit shackled by perfectionism and almost believing that the more I did for God, the more he would love [00:12:00] me.

Angela: Yes. And the Lord broke that off. You know, in that moment to say, I love you, period. And whatever you do for me needs to flow from that place of knowing that we are loved by God. So that place of desperation was the beginning of a shift in my relationship with the Lord. And I’ve said like I thought I learned everything I needed to learn.

Angela: I think I learned what he wanted me to learn in that moment, but we never stopped learning, you know, as, as disciples of Christ. And so two years later, I became very ill and ended up losing a substantial amount of weight. My blood pressure was holding about 75 over 40. , I was always on my left side in a tremendous amount of pain, couldn’t eat, and so finally I was put in the hospital.

Angela: I spent 11 days in the hospital without anything to eat or drink, just running tests. They just really had no idea what was going on. They flew my parents in, they said Things don’t look good, so if you wanna see her, you probably need to come. [00:13:00] I had two very small, young children. Which the Lord had given me after this battle with endometriosis.

Angela: And so I’m thinking, okay, God, you’ve given me these kids and now I’m not gonna be here to raise them. You know, you’re thinking through all of these things. Yeah. So. On the 11th day in the hospital, they ordered an a test where you drink that barium swallow. That’s really gross. And yeah, it’s supposed to see if you have an obstruction.

Angela: And they, they said she’ll be about 45 minutes. So they wheeled me down and they laid me on a cold metal table. I said bye to my parents. And Dale thought I. Be right back. And that test stretched on into seven hours, Kelly. So I laid there. I would get up on all fours, I’d roll over, I would drink more. And the problem was that the barium would get to a place in the x-ray and stop and they couldn’t get it to go through.

Angela: So they were really trying to see where the obstruction was and so on. In the seventh hour, [00:14:00] I heard the Lord say to me, and I had been a worship pastor for like 20 years, and I heard him say in my. Feeling audibly. It was just me in that room and it was the one of the lowest places of my entire life. And I heard him say, Angela, I know that you can worship me on the platform.

Angela: I just wanna know if you can worship me here. Hmm. That’s so powerful. And I honestly like the flesh part of me wanted to say, I don’t know that I can because you’re sovereign and you’re allowing this, and I’m wrestling and. Yet, I believe what had happened two years earlier leading me to a place of desperation, leading me to a place of living dependency on the Lord.

Angela: Without that experience, I don’t know that I would’ve had the heart posture to say, okay, God, I will worship you. I don’t understand it. I don’t like it. I don’t know what’s happening, but I will choose to worship you. And I just laid there and saying [00:15:00] a chorus of, here I am to worship out loud, just me and the Lord.

Angela: And the next day I had a team of doctors around my hospital bed and they had. Found a diagnosis. It’s a rare disorder called superior mesenteric artery syndrome, and I had an artery taking too sharp a turn, compressing on my intestines, acting like an obstruction. So that’s why my heart rate was low.

Angela: My blood pressure was low and it was too dangerous to move the artery, so they moved my intestines, they cut me stem to stern. They disconnected my intestines from my stomach and then reconnected my stomach to a different part of my intestines to get past that point that was pressing on the artery.

Angela: And I spent a couple more weeks in the hospital and then I spent about a year learning how to eat solid food again. And Wow, really just adjusting from all of that trauma into, you know, to my body. And the Lord. Kind of the takeaway there, you said, how did God meet you there that first time? He met me by saying.[00:16:00]

Angela: I want you to live in this place of dependency on me, Angela. I’m gonna do things in your life that you’re not going to be able to go where I need you to go if you don’t let go and let me lead and live in dependency. That was the first lesson. But this lesson was really, complete and utter surrender in that hospital room.

Angela: And then when I left there, rather than asking God, why. Which I think we can, I don’t think he faults us for it, but I think it can be. It can be a futile question. We may not get the answer that we’re looking for, but instead, I began to ask, and this maybe could just encourage some of our listeners if they’re going through something, is to ask, number one, what do I need to learn from this?

Angela: And then secondly, how can you use this for your glory? Mm. Those are answers. I know the Lord will give and he redeems, as you said a minute ago. We don’t always have control over what we [00:17:00] go through, but we do have control over the way we go through it. Yes. And if we’re gonna worship him, if we’re gonna lean into him or resent him, be bitter, be yielded.

Angela: And for me, Kelly, he’s just used health in my life as that crucible to continue to shape me back to a place of dependency and worship. I’m in it again with my eyesight, but the lesson is the same. Will I worship him in it? While I worship him through it, while I trust that he is good, even if the situation that I’m going through is not good, and that would be my encouragement to anyone walking through health, finances, relational.

Angela: God is good. He’s trustworthy, and he’s worthy of our worship. Even when we don’t understand the situation that we’re going through. Amen. Yeah, that is, that is hardcore foundational truth that when we [00:18:00] wrestle through the hard, that’s what we need to know. That’s what holds us in his hands. We can be confused about what’s happening and still fully convinced that God is trustworthy and the worship.

Kelly: That’s a lesson that. God just is teaching my husband and I again in a fresh way right now as we walked through something very hard in this, even yesterday morning he put a little note on his Bible and marked a place and said, God is leading me to worship in our hardship. And he wrote, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is, and is to come.

Kelly: And that truth is just holding us right now. He is who he says he is, and we can trust him.

Angela: Absolutely. Absolutely. He was meaning what he’s already done. He is meaning what he’s present with us now and the hope that this is not all there is, even if we don’t see the full redemption. I wanted to not have that surgery.

Angela: I wanted to not have my esophagus stretched a dozen times since that surgery to [00:19:00] keep it open. I don’t want those things in my flesh, but I don’t wanna resist anything. That God is allowing that would lead me into deeper relationship with him and eventually greater glory for him. So that’s the who he is, who he was, and who he will be.

Angela: Meaning if, even if we don’t see the full restoration of it now, he’s the hope of who he will be. And, and you’re right. That frames everything. That frames everything that we walk through. It changes everything. Yeah. That is so good. Thank you. I, I’m wondering if you wouldn’t mind, I’m gonna give the title of your book again just for our listeners.

Angela: It’s called Fearless Ordinary Women of the Bible, who dare to do extraordinary things. I would love it if you would just tell us which of these stories is most impactful for you. I’m sure all of them are. You already mentioned Priscilla, so maybe you can, I know, right. It’s like choosing a child, you know, who’s [00:20:00] your favorite child?

Angela: You know what I mean? You love all of them. And I do, I truly loved my heart for writing that particular book, Kelly. That was my second Bible study. Um, my, my first Bible study is Finding Joy when life is out of focus, and it’s on the book of Philippians. And it came, that book came right on the heels of all that health struggle.

Angela: And I write about a little bit about my testimony in every book because someone may find me in one book and not have known it previously. I do write about the woman with the issue of blood. And I think because of nearly losing my life hemorrhaging and just the ongoing kind of saga of health challenges in my life, I really, her story resonates with me.

Angela: Because she spent so many years just struggling with health challenges. Yeah. And, and then that moment of surrender for her that changed everything. It reminds us that. You know, the place to go in hardship is his presence, because a moment in his presence can [00:21:00] change everything. So for a personal moment, I really love her.

Angela: I would normally say Priscilla, she is my girl. I love her. I’ve served alongside of my husband in ministry for over 30 years, so I get that kind of dynamic. Of, of tag teaming in ministry. We serve together at a local church in ministry, but we also have our own, I mean, he’s overseas right now in ministry.

Angela: And then I do my own personal ministry that the Lord’s leads. But that’s been just the, the call on God on our life has been in joint ministry. And so I understand maybe Priscilla’s life that way. But you know, one other thing, and I know I’m giving too many women, you told me one, but. I had a unique experience this year and when I saw that question come through, I thought, you know, I wouldn’t have normally said this, but this year I was invited to help lead a team to Egypt, um, with the same tour company.

Angela: We love Faith-based Expeditions that just did the tour in Greece. And I had the [00:22:00] Honor Kelly of speaking on the first session from Fearless, which is the women who delivered a deliverer. All of the women in Moses’ life. One of them being his mother, you know his sister, the Pharaoh’s daughter that pulled him out of the water.

Angela: Yeah. Yeah. And when I shared that message, we were floating down the Nile River. Oh wow. I know. So I had this like outof body moment of like speaking and looking out of the window of the boat and being like, what is even happening in this, in right now? But it was, it again, I think Kelly, we, we, we can read Bible stories, myself included, and we either think they’re superheroes, they’re wearing a cape, you know, they’re leaping buildings in a single bound.

Angela: Or they’re unrelatable, like they don’t get my life. They’re just too perfect. They’re too, no, first of all, there is no perfect person in the Bible except Jesus. But I [00:23:00] feel like that we can disconnect ourselves and standing in the places where they’ve been, like Corinth or the Nile. It reminds me these were ordinary women just like you and me, or men who are listening who chose.

Angela: To, I don’t know if every one of them understood the gravity of the moment they were in and the moment they were in it. But here we are, 2,000 4,000 years later, still telling their stories because they chose obedience. Chose decisions that might have seemed small or ordinary or commonplace, but they, they shifted the trajectory sometimes of, of absolute history.

Angela: And so. It’s been one of the greatest gifts the Lord has given me has been to travel to some of these places. Even if you never get to, if you’re listening, you still can get to by going through God’s word and traveling there with them and [00:24:00] remembering these were normal, ordinary people who looked and stared down their own impossible and said, all right, God, without you, absolutely not.

Angela: But with you, if you’re calling me to this, I’m just gonna do the next. Right thing that’s in front of me. Mm-hmm. And then a million little steps of obedience lead to this life of kingdom impact. But it’s, it’s one small decision at a time.

Kelly: Gosh, I so agree with that. I have these same moments that you’re describing even with people that are just barely mentioned for a moment like Simeon and Anna.

Kelly: Yeah. In the temple, when they got to bless Jesus and hold baby Jesus, they knew he was the Messiah. They got to intersect his life because of daily choices that they made to place their their life. In submission to the Lord, to worship him, to follow him daily, day after day after day.

Kelly: [00:25:00] Our faith choices matter. These rhythms that we build into our life of praying and reading the Bible matter, we can’t even see why. But it’s so fun to take a moment and think about people. Those , who were involved in Moses’ life, just to think of the impact our lives can have as we choose to just say yes to Jesus on a daily basis.

Angela: Right, right, right in the middle of your ordinary, you know? We think about these big, huge moments like Elijah calling down fire from heaven, or you know, Mary with Jesus. Yeah. And saying, okay, I’ll carry the son of God. And those we, we think no less of those amazing moments. But as you just said, the ordinary, mundane moments of our lives that don’t feel very spectacular, that don’t feel very noteworthy, they add up.

Angela: To a life that gives the Lord space to do what he wants to do. And that was, that was the overarching idea that I was wanting to get across in [00:26:00] Fearless that we don’t have to be removed from these stories, but our lives intersect with what God wants to do in the same way and our YES is our superpower. Our obedience is our superpower in the kingdom.

Angela: And so we all can do that and we don’t. We don’t need a cape. You know what I mean? Yeah. I love that. Do it so well, one of the stories that falls under just what you’re explaining is the story of Rahab and where she made some courageous choices in a world where it would’ve seemed like the most. Foolish thing to do.

Kelly: Yeah. And you write, our past doesn’t have to paralyze our future. Mm-hmm. I love this story so much. I just want you to talk about it. I don’t wanna give away my thoughts. You go, you absolutely.

Angela: And I would love, I would love to hear your thoughts, Kelly, but just briefly, Rahab is, you know, one of the early non-Jewish converts, you know, we know that she left with with the Jewish people.

Angela: She was in Jericho. She was in a. A city that you just happened to live [00:27:00] in. And it was a city that was walled up. It was a city that was completely resistant, you know, to God. And, uh, it was a, it was a city and a people group that God used the. People of Israel to bring justice, but he gave them an opportunity in his mercy.

Angela: And when they went to spy out the land, they came into, uh, an area where Rahab lived and she had heard of God. So she used what she knew, which is what she’d heard. And. We, I know this might be a little bit hard to hear, but we don’t really have any evidence at the point that the spies went, which Joshua would’ve been one of them.

Angela: She was still running a brothel. You know, she was a prostitute and her most theologians think she wasn’t just a prostitute. She was likely like the manager, the madam, the, you know, she had a, a, a kind of a home within the, the main wall. In fact, [00:28:00] again, I, I hate to keep mentioning places I’ve been, but it’s hard to talk about these places now that I’ve been there.

Angela: It comes back to my mind, but I, I was able to go to Jericho when I was in Israel, and the only remaining part of the wall, Kelly, is what they believed was her house. And it was right in the, I know, and it was like in the body of the wall. And so when the entire wall of Jericho fell, she, her house, she, she and her family are the only ones that got out.

Angela: That’s the bottom line. And so. Even though she was still in the middle of number one, a really depraved culture. Number two, she chose to align herself with the people and purposes of God rather than her own culture and shift not only what was happening in in their situation, but I believe that was the catalyst for her leaving that life.

Angela: And moving into a different [00:29:00] life because she left with the Israelites at that point, and when the walls fell, she got out first. Not only her, but her whole family got out. So she’s just this kind of rare example of someone who can be right in the middle of the lion’s den literally. And your choice can make a difference.

Angela: So. Her past didn’t define the, the rest of her life, literally walls were crumbling around her and she got out. And so it just reminds us, it doesn’t matter how bad our past, what seems to be falling down around us, God not only provides for us, gives us a way out of that, preserves us. And gives us a hope and a future after that,

Angela: mm-hmm. She’s an interesting woman and she’s mentioned in the New Testament because of her faith. She’s still mentioned as the prostitute Rahab, so, I mean, it’s like, you know, poor girl. But what it shows me [00:30:00] is she was so clearly defined by that. Her whole identity was that, and yet. She shed that identity spiritually and was then known by her faith. Yeah.

Angela: So whatever has trapped us, identified us, buried us, or is trying to, it doesn’t, it doesn’t have to. So I’m curious to know why her story impacted you? I mean, would you mind sharing just a moment? Oh, not at all.

Kelly: Well, I loved so much that she said, our hearts are melting in fear. Everybody in Jericho, knew the truth. Yeah. The Israelites were coming. They knew that God had parted the Red Sea for them. They knew that he had rescued them from the Egyptians and they knew that he had just destroyed the, these other two kings.

Kelly: Right. But she’s the only one She said, God is greater. I’m gonna put my faith in him. I’m gonna stand up to the leadership. Because I want God and I want out of this way of living.

Kelly: mm-hmm. I [00:31:00] think it’s so powerful to me because you see her courage, you see her grit, even though she was treated probably as less than I would assume by everybody in that city. She was somebody who didn’t let that keep her down.

Kelly: I think that even as she heard these stories, God was stirring faith in her heart to believe that this was true.

Kelly: The other people heard the stories, but they didn’t have the faith to believe it’s, and I think that’s really instructive for us to know that it’s not about just hearing the stories, it’s not about just reading the Bible. Do you have faith to believe this is faith that God gives you? Will you put your life and your trust in the one who is handing you faith in his himself?

Angela: Absolutely. Faith then has to act. She didn’t just hear about it. She didn’t just have faith in her heart, but she acted, and that’s what she’s commended for in the book of James, is by Faith. Rahab hid the spies. She acted, you know, and it made a difference, not only in the Israelites lives, but it made a difference in her own [00:32:00] life and that of her family.

Angela: Yeah. The only people rescued out of that were Rahab and her family. That’s incredible.

Angela: Yeah. And then the Scarlet Thread would you just talk to us about that?

Angela: I love it because when the two spies leave, they basically say, she says to them, remember me, remember this that I’ve done for you?

Angela: And they say, okay, we will, but you need to hang a scarlet cord out your window so you know when this is happening, we’ll know that we need to come and rescue you. And I can just picture Kelly like. Things are starting to crumble, you know? Yeah. The walls are starting to come down and imagine that, you know, this wall was by our standards, I don’t know, 20, 30 feet tall.

Angela: I mean, this is a massive situation here. So feet, you know, 20, 30 feet thick. This is not a little, this is not like a little house structure. This is a massive situation. In the middle of that, he or she and her family are rescued out of it [00:33:00] because again, she chose to act. She had the faith to hang that scarlet cord.

Angela: It was a means by which they said, that’s gonna mark you and mark this home for us to know where to find you and get you out. And so you, you that scarlet thread. As it were through scripture, all the way through the New Testament, through the blood of Jesus. And really it’s the same invitation that we have is we’re invited to be saved, to be lifted up out of whatever is trying to bury us.

Angela: And sin is what tries to bury us. We’re all separated from God by sin, and the only way. Back to him is not, you know, to hang a cord out my window over here, but to physically say, God, I receive your sacrifice, the blood of Jesus that washes me and washes my sin. I believe I have faith that you are who you say you are.

Angela: So that scarlet cord goes all the way through the cross and um, it’s the way [00:34:00] we kind of hold out. You know, hold out in faith who we are to a world that’s hurting and needs to see who our savior is. Oh, amen. You write, grace is the undoing of something old. Mm-hmm. And the unfolding of something new. And that’s what we see in her life where she was a prostitute.

Angela: But yet later we read she was in the lineage of Jesus Christ. Yeah, I mean, God just exalts her and lifts her up and so many times people may judge somebody else’s. Faith or may judge where they are in life. But here, God just exalts her, exalts, her faith in the middle of her sinful life. I guess we could say.

Angela: She is just exercising tremendous faith. So it just blows me away. But I, I do wanna just jump ahead to the story that you’ve already mentioned of the woman bleeding for 12 years. You write:

Angela: Jesus accomplished in one moment what no one could do in 12 years. [00:35:00] Sometimes God changes a situation and sometimes God changes us. And so I’m gonna have you speak about this, but I just wanna say too that this story ministers to me for the same reason. It does to you be. Because we have girls that have walked through chronic Lyme disease.

Angela: We’ve been through a lot of difficult treatments, and one thing that happens when you go through treatment, after treatment, after treatment, like this woman who had been bleeding for 12 years, is you develop a kind of medical trauma where you stop wanting to trust the doctors.

Angela: You stop wanting to risk hope you stop daring to hope. You stop trying letting yourself be vulnerable and believe that there’s a way out. And so the thing about her story that impresses me so much is her courage. To dare to risk. Mm-hmm. And to refuse to give up hope, because when she, I mean, after she’d been through all of this, lost all of her money, done all of the things, and was still bleeding and still in daily pain, [00:36:00] she has the courage to believe that Jesus can make a difference.

Angela: We don’t see bitterness. We don’t see she shut down. We don’t see her trapped in hopelessness. And so that’s what means so much to me about that story. I agree, Kelly, I couldn’t, I honestly couldn’t say it any better and thank you for sharing that. And I think whatever we walk through where it feels like it’s just going on and on.

Angela: Yeah. You know, I, like I said, Dale and I are in the ministry, so we’ve loved on people who, their marriage is just, it just stru. It’s a struggle. Or, you know, they have a prodigal child and it just, like you said, you, you almost feel like hope is indulgent, you know? Yeah. Like it’s just, it’s too risky. It’s too heartbreaking to get up another day and to pray and to ask God.

Angela: But we do know, hope doesn’t disappoint. But we can begin to think that God is disappointing us When something feels like it’s dragging on and on, and we need con, we need, you know, consistent grace undergirding that to, to [00:37:00] support and strengthen us through it. And you’re right, I think for her to find, not only would she have been, uh, courageous, but most likely extremely emaciated.

Angela: Depleted just to physically find the strength. Uh, some scholars feel like she probably was crawling on her hands and knees to get to him at that point. There’s another aspect of it beyond even the medical Kelly, is that in that culture, because of Levitical law, she was deemed unclean. So in the Jewish culture at the time, someone who would just continuously.

Angela: Bleed. You know, there were laws around that. There were rules around that, and you couldn’t touch them. She wasn’t allowed to be touched. She wasn’t allowed to go to the synagogue. This is someone who can’t go to church. This is someone who no one can visit and touch. This is someone who had to kind of like a leper yell.

Angela: I’m unclean when I walk into a room for, I mean, for 12 years. This is not like a bad, this is like I have the [00:38:00] flu for a week. This is my entire life is destroyed by this illness. It’s defined by this illness. That’s where she was at. And so not only did she have the courage to brave going into the crowd with her medical condition, but maybe equally, if not more courageous was her.

Angela: And I think that’s why she tried to stay on scene. Like she knew that she could. She shouldn’t be. I’m putting into air quotes. I know you’re listening, but she shouldn’t touch the rabbi. She shouldn’t touch him because she would make him unclean and. Yet, he turns around and specifically asks who touched me?

Angela: You know, he didn’t have to stop Kelly. He could have just healed her power left him. She’s healed instantaneously. It’s a done deal. He could have kept on moving and he was on a mission. He didn’t have to stop. So the fact that he stopped and asked who touched me. Was not as only for her benefit to, to bring [00:39:00] her forward.

Angela: He wasn’t trying to shame her. God never, ever, ever tries to shame us. Absolutely. But it was also to show the people around her who believed, oh my goodness, you’ve touched the master. You’ve made the rabbi unclean your sin, your issue, your bleeding. You had no business being here. You know, I write in that story.

Angela: She didn’t make him unclean. He made her whole Mm. And so I think to, to know that our issues can. Keep us from Jesus in our own mind and heart. Maybe we think we’re disqualified, or when I get it together, when I clean up my life, when I, when I get this fixed, when I get that Jesus wants to come to him, just the way we are in the middle of it, and to know that no issue is gonna render him unclean.

Angela: No issue is too big, too, too hard. And, and to know that we are loved and wanted by him in [00:40:00] the middle of it. So I, I can’t imagine what she went through for 12 years. I just can’t, I mean, I, I wrote some of that, you know, it was released right before COVID, and so here we were separated from one another.

Angela: You know, we’re sitting feet apart, we’re wearing masks. No one’s touching each other. But can you imagine going 12 years without going able to go to, go to church, if she was married? No intimacy, no nothing. And, and yet, Jesus, the very thing that kept her was the thing that he leaned into was the touch.

Angela: Yeah. The last piece of that I’ll say is that she grabbed the bottom of, when it says like the hem of his garment, the fringe, it would’ve been like the bottom of the prayer shawl that he wore, that the rabbis wore. Usually it’s blue and white or dark navy and white. And it had this fringe on the bottom, that’s all she was trying to touch.

Angela: She basically said, if I could just get a, like, I don’t need to talk to him. I don’t wanna stop him. I don’t wanna bother him. I, I, if I could just like [00:41:00] touch the very bottom of his garment, I know he could heal me. I mean, that’s incredible Faith, first of all, incredible, but the fringe of the garment represented the law.

Angela: So the very thing she’s touching. Is the thing that in the natural said, you’re not clean, you don’t deserve to be here. Get away from him. And yet Jesus was basically saying like, you know, , I am gonna heal you. I’m gonna touch you. I’m not intimidated. Yeah. By any issue that you bring me. And if we have to do it a thousand times, we go back to him over and over and over and know that his presence is our safest place and we don’t listen to the lies of the enemy.

Angela: We listen to what God says over us and and that’s what brings us hope and healing.

Kelly: Yes, and another thing I love so much about that story is that Jesus loves us too much to allow us to be left. Unhealed, and he may not heal us physically, but he will always [00:42:00] heal our souls. And when he calls her out into this beautiful conversation, he heals her socially and he heals her emotionally and mentally. And then that deep part of her heart that’s just been longing to belong. He calls her daughter. And in that one moment, the unnamed woman becomes named and becomes a part exactly of his family, family of God. It’s so beautiful.

Angela: It is beautiful.

Kelly: Well, I wanna just transition a little bit to our listeners who may be really struggling to believe that they are loved by God. When we are suffering, it’s so easy to believe that God’s abandoned us. And I have a friend who suffered a deep loss, and the intensity of that just. Left her with these lies in her soul that she was unloved and unwanted and abandoned.

Kelly: And I’m just wondering what you’ve learned in your study of these women and what you’ve shared with other women that helps us live fearlessly in the truth of God’s love.

Angela: Yeah, I would say it’s [00:43:00] both. An event and a process. And what I mean by that is I can intellectually know that I’m loved by God. I can say by faith, God is good when life is not.

Angela: I am loved by God, even though I’m walking through blank. Okay, so that’s the event. The faith declaration if you will, the belief. That I know to be true about God and his character, because otherwise we’re putting God’s character on trial. We don’t wanna say that we’re doing that, but what we’re saying is, if you are so good, then why this And may, or maybe you’re just good to Kelly, but you’re not good to me.

Angela: Or you’re good to this person, but not me because I, I’m going through this thing and maybe if I was a better person or if you loved me more. So we start lying. We, we start believing the [00:44:00] lies that the enemy feeds us. And in doing that, we can accuse God and accuse his character of not being trustworthy.

Angela: So the event is, I believe God, that you are good. I’m gonna say in faith that you love me and that I am loved by you and this situation does not change anything about your character. And then I would also say it’s a process of living in that truth daily, uh, growing in it, understanding it more so that it’s not just.

Angela: A one time statement, we say, and it, and I think that can feel flippant and it can feel unattainable. Yeah. Forgiveness can feel unattainable. Believing God is good in the middle of suffering is Una. It can feel unattainable, but I can say in faith these things, and then my relationship with the Lord. It comes from that [00:45:00] belief, rather than staying back here and just waiting until I somehow believe that he’s good.

Angela: I would just encourage you in the middle of your suffering. For me, it was in the middle of a hospital room, or as I’m now in the middle of this journey with my vision or other situations I’m walking through in what I call the messy middle. You know, don’t wait until you get on the other side of it.

Angela: To say in faith that God is good and that you are loved. Believe it where you are in the middle of it by faith. And then walk that out in this process that God is ta walking you through and ask Him, God, I know your word says that you love me and that you are good and that you are faithful and you’re not gonna leave me and you don’t abandon me.

Angela: I’m struggling to believe that today. So remind me, teach me that. And then that way we’re not being fake. We’re not being a fraud to say I believe something that I don’t believe we’re saying it, but then we’re allowing our heart to [00:46:00] sometimes catch up. To what we’re saying, but all of our emotions are not there yet.

Angela: Does that make sense? Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s we’re, we’re declaring what’s true and we’re living, and that does build courage and confidence in us, even though there’s still that part where we may not believe. But God meets us there, and as we just continue to wrestle it out with him, he finally will lead us to a place where our hearts are aligned with his.

Angela: And I’m just so grateful that we can be people who can say, I’m totally convinced you really are who you say you are. But I’m really confused about how my life looks right now. That’s good, convinced and confused. I mean, that’s, that’s kind of the state that we can live in, but the Lord can lift us up out of that.

Angela: Yes. Whether we do or do not get the, the answer quote unquote, that we’re looking for. I just want your listeners to hear, our listeners to hear. [00:47:00] Suffering is not an indication that God does not love you. Amen. We live in a fallen, broken world. We’re suffering a bounds. I wish it didn’t. I’d love to tell us that if you come to Christ, all your problems go away and you’ll never have pain and we’ll never suffer.

Angela: It just isn’t true and it isn’t biblical and it isn’t What we see throughout the old and the New Testament. What we see is you’re going to experience trouble in this world. Jesus said it, but take heart. I’ve overcome the world. Keep your eyes on me. Keep fixed on me. Put your hope in me. Your hope is not wasted in me.

Angela: Mm. And trust my character in the middle of it and trust that I’m doing something in and through you back to those two questions. Okay? God, teach me what I need to learn. I wanna grow deeper and use this for your glory. And those two things will always happen when we invite him into the [00:48:00] situation. Amen.

Angela: I’m so glad you came back to those two questions. I was gonna ask you to repeat them for us. Mm-hmm. That’s so powerful. Well, Angela, you’re, you have such a heart for worship. I, I love your heart and your anointing from the Lord is so beautiful and apparent. So I’m just wondering what words of, you know, what words do you wanna leave us with, even though you’ve given us so much to hold on to. Hmm. You know, I think because we’ve kind of circled this life of obedience, that’s a brave, courageous life. You know, obedience is the most courageous thing that we can do.

Angela: And what I mean by that is surrendering to the Lord and his purposes and plans. And in that, I would say this, Kelly, our obedience is our worship. And so when we’re struggling, you may not find yourself in a hospital room, you know, dying. But you may feel like you’re in a rough situation today, and yet in the middle of it, we can still [00:49:00] choose to worship, and that’s leaning forward into God and who he is and saying, God, I choose to worship you in the middle of this.

Angela: That’s kind of my life frame, I guess you’d say, Kelly, my life versus Romans 12 versus one and two. Where Paul says, you know, therefore, I, I urge you brothers and sisters to present your bodies a living sacrifice, which is your pure and holy. This is your worship. It’s not to just do something, it’s just you.

Angela: You are the dwelling place of the most high God. It’s you that he wants it’s relationship with you. It’s, it’s your trust, your faith, your expectancy, your hope, and that’s daily obedience. As I said a minute ago, it’s a million little steps of obedience in the small and the big, and none of that, hear me, none of that is wasted.

Angela: None of that goes unnoticed by the Lord. And it’s honoring [00:50:00] him. And in that he’s pleased and he’s going to take care of what is on your heart. And I, I believe that theme really runs through my resources. Kelly, I’ve written. Several Bible studies now and a book I co-authored with my father. Oh, called Brave Enough.

Angela: Yeah. We had that gift together. How the it’s called Brave Enough to Believe How the Life of Doubting Thomas answers our Hard Questions. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So that’s my most recent book. And then I have Finding Joy, I have fearless, I have a devotional called Astounded, which is a little more lighthearted with some personal stories and 52 devotions, but the theme of my life.

Angela: Is not just a worship on a Sunday morning, but a lifestyle, a life of worship in response to who God is. Back to 12, Romans 12, and I’ll end with this is Paul says, in view of God’s mercy, present, your body’s a living sacrifice. So we don’t do it to [00:51:00] earn God’s love, we don’t do it. As, as a duty. We do it in because of his great mercy, because he so loved us.

Angela: When we didn’t ask for it, we didn’t deserve it. We didn’t. It’s just grace, as you mentioned earlier. Because of that, we respond and worship is our response to who God is, and so your worship. In whatever way that is for you as you’re listening is in response to who he is. And he’s, he’s honored by that.

Angela: And, uh, so I’d love, I’d love for you to have my resources just because I believe they’ll, they’ll encourage you. And they’re [email protected]. They’re at Amazon or anywhere you’d find books. I also. Hosted the Make Life Matter podcast for many years, and that’s still available to listen to. , But my books and my music are there on my website or other places you can find them.

Angela: Thank you Angela, [00:52:00] and you know, everything that you’ve shared certainly does circle around this whole issue of surrender and obedience. While we are gazing at a God with whom nothing is impossible, who is already working in every way, in every area that can concerns our hearts, he is our savior and he is on a rescue mission.

Angela: And every time we look around, he’s in the business of rescuing us. I love that. I love that. I love it so much. Again, thank you so much for joining me, Kelly. It’s been an honor. It’s been a joy to be here.

If you were encouraged in your faith today, i’d love to hear from you. You can reach out through my website, kelly hall.org and pick up some free resources while you’re there. Thanks for listening to the Unshakable Hope podcast.